Thinking of buying a small dozer

Qweaver · October 19, 2006, 04:28:37 PM

I've made my mind up to buy a small dozer over the winter. We just have to much dirt and stump work to do for us to try to use my TLB Kubota. I'd really like to get something like a JD 450 but I'd have to buy a truck and trailer to move it. A 350 will do what we need (barely) and I can move it on my existing trailer. I'm not seeing many JD or Case 350s on the market but lots of other brands (foreign)in the same size range.
I know that a lot of you FFers operate a wide range of equipment and maybe I can get some guidance.
Quinton

farmerscotty · October 19, 2006, 07:28:32 PM

http://discuss.ibdozing.com/discus/messages/board-topics.html
http://www.ytmag.com/crawlers/wwwboard1.html

http://www.equipmenttraderonline.com/
http://www.machinerytrader.com/default.asp?guid=92183BACDE64473E883BDC28CF98D007

For snow plow owners:http://www.plowsite.com/index.php

http://www.kingofobsolete.ca/ very interesting site from Canada Cat trains over frozen lakes and goodies.......

remember you get what you pay for.......you can drop 7k on an undercarriage before you know what you have done. Junk is junk! Get the best you can for the money you have.......Don't buy junk and expect it to work like new.......you'll be the guy rebuilding a machine to new and then when your finished with it ready to sell it after all the labor to fix it and $$$$

I looked for over 13 months before I bought a track loader.........fiat allis FL9 90hp 27500# machine.

It is always tempting to buy something cheap........but these things cost an arm and leg to work on!

Farmerscotty 8)

Bro. Noble · October 19, 2006, 09:00:11 PM

My son-in-law and I were talking about dozers last week. He works for the forest service and sometimes operates dozers. He said they have 350 and 450 JD's and maintainthem extremely well. When they get so much age or hours, they are sold. He says that's the place to get a good used dozer.

Welcome,farmerscotty 8) You come from one of my favorite parts of the country ;D

bitternut · October 19, 2006, 10:51:42 PM

Quinton we have a JD 350C diesel and its been a nice running machine. Ours has the wet steering clutches which is desired. We have owned it about 12 years. I cleared about 5 acres with it when we first got it and now mainly use it for trail maintenance. It will pop out stumps if you work at them opposite the prevailing winds. A 450 would be better but would cost more and be harder to move around. Never regretted owning it.

scsmith42 · October 19, 2006, 11:21:44 PM

Quinton, I have a JD550B and a Cat D8. I've also spent a lot of time on a JD450B.

Lots of good advice from others. Here is my 2 cents.

1 - get a solid machine, not a project.
2 - buy one with the least amount of hours that you can afford. 6000 hours seems to be the point where you're going to start seeing a lot of maintenance costs. 2K hours or less would be ideal.
3 - an undercarriage will run you about 9K for a 450 / 550 sized machine. Be sure that you understand the % of wear on what you purchase.
4 - If you have a chance to purchase a machine with a Powershift transmission, RUN! I'm in the process of spending 10K on a tranny rebuild. A later model with a JD tranny would cost 1/2 to 1/2 for the same rebuild.
5 - have fluid analysis performed on any machine that you're considering, by a reputable lab. This will help you understand the condition of the machine.
6 -bigger is better. You can do a lot more with a 550 than a 350. A 550B weighs about 16K lbs, and I've moved mine several times behind my Ford dually (granted with a great trailer and truly outstanding brakes, and less than 30 miles).

Best of success to you. Let me know if I can help.

Scott

Qweaver · October 19, 2006, 11:37:05 PM

Thanks for the input.
I think that the JD 350 or similar is going to be our best choice. We have a pond to build and lots of not to large stumps to remove and then just a lot of landscaping to do. All of my cousins are just salivating at the thought of having a small dozer to play with. Cousin David operated D8s and D9s for a living for many years and he constantly bitches about not being able to tilt the bucket on my tractor. :D I've dug out some fairly big stumps with my backhoe but you'd better bring a lunch when you start on one. We had a 450 for a few days and were able to get some really big stumps out but that was a lot of work too. No way could we just put the blade against the stump and pop them out.
Quinton

submarinesailor · October 20, 2006, 08:23:18 AM

Quinton,

I totally agree with Scott on the fluid analysis comment. Having worked in the oil sampling business for several years, I found out just how many things you can find with a complete analysis – I strongly recommend it.

If you or anyone else needs a good certified lab, let me know. I worked for one and have several more I would recommend. As a matter of fact, I just discarded my latest copy of "Practicing Oil Analysis" day before yesterday.

Bruce

Dangerous_Dan · October 20, 2006, 08:53:04 AM

I have 2 John Deere 350's. Great machines. You can get alot of work done with one. It may be small but you will be surprised what you can do with it. Also the JD 350's have reversers which is a nice option but you are going the same speed forward as backward unless you stop and switch gears.
I also have a Komatsu D31E-18 with powershift trans. It's about the size of a JD 450. The advantage to the powershift is you can switch gears while moving under load. With the powershift you can push slow forward and then when going back you can kick it up a gear or 2 with out stopping to save time. I have had no problems with the powershift trans but the machine only has 2200 or so hours on it.
I like the mechanical setup on the Komatsu better than on the JD. To service the trans or reverser on a JD is a nightmare, just about everything has to be removed to get to it.
On the Komatsu the trans is driven by a driveshaft and is not directly bolted to the engine like in the JD. To service the powershift portion of the Komatsu trans drop the driveshaft from the engine and disconnect some linkages and lines then you can remove the trans with a floor jack or pallet jack. The steering clutches on the Komatsu can be serviced from the top without removing the final drives or tracks which need to be removed when doing this on the 350's.
If you are set on getting a JD 350 I'm interested in selling one of mine since I got the Komatsu.
DD

submarinesailor · October 20, 2006, 08:56:17 AM

Dan,

Could you tell me how much the JD 350 weights?

Bruce

Dangerous_Dan · October 20, 2006, 09:04:54 AM

Bruce-
The manual only gives it's weight as a crawler tractor - no blade. Listing it at 10,000 pounds.
My guess would be that it's about 12,000 with the 6 way blade.
DD

Tom · October 20, 2006, 11:45:41 AM

Not trying to be a wet blanket, but I had considered a small dozer for clearing my property and was talked out of it by a savvy salesman at the Ford Tractor place. I'm glad he did. I first bought a Ford 5550 from an individual. It was junk and didn't last a week. It was in 1985 and I replaced it with a Ford 555A from the dealer's rental fleet. The price was good and it was relatively new and well maintained. I still have it.

Having had a rubber tired back hoe, now, I wouldn't change it for a dozer on a bet. I've dug stumps, dug ditches, built roads, carried dirt, boomed logs around the mill, use homemade forks to move lumber and have put a friend in the front end loader, up high, for a deer stand a few mornings.

My neighber has a 450 case bulldozer and, I'll have to admit, it does a good job of grading when the whoops get big in the driveway or a pile of dirt needs to be pushed. It has a hard time with stumps and even palmettos though and the backhoe will sit there and eat them up without making near the mess. If there is a job down the street, he has to trailer his dozer, I just drive the hoe.

He has gotten high centered on a stump several times and I've had to go get him off. We threw a track in a wet spot and it was "oh woe is me". I got the front end loader on the hoe under the back of the dozer with the industrial axle block up and, between the dozer blade and the FEL lifted the whole dozer off of the ground.

I wouldn't change my hoe for a dozer now for anything. 'Course I have access to a dozer now if I need it, it's just that I find I dont need it. My neighbor is always borrowing the hoe.

So far, I haven't been able to stick the hoe so bad I couldn't get it out. It makes me wonder what kind of a mess I'd have to get into to do it.

Now, my wife uses it for her "wheel barrow". She won't let me sell it even if I had a buyer.

Sitting in the seat, gets you high enough that you can find a breeze that doesn't exist down on the ground. I've been known to get up in it to have a cup of coffee and admire my place, whether I crank it up or not.

I don't know about a dozer, but a hoe runs on grease. If you don't keep pins greased, they will wear, gall and cost a lot of money in replacement. I don't hotrod it, and have never had an engine problem. It has cost me a water pump, sometimes hoses and a swing pin job when I was buildings a pond once.

Raising the kids it built them a little hole to swim in and provided a high dive when I was doing nothing else and wanted to watch them.

thurlow · October 20, 2006, 12:06:01 PM

I've had both a small (HD-4, about the size of a JD 350 or a little bigger) and a somewhat larger (TD-15). Used the A-C dozer for 15 or 18 years; almost every time I used it, I wished for something larger. Kind'a like buying/owning a trailer or building a shop; they're never too large; almost always too small. Your experience may be different....................

Qweaver · October 20, 2006, 01:29:17 PM

Tom & Thurlow, you both make good points. Tom you obviously have a much bigger backhoe than mine. I've learned how to get my stumps out by backing the hoe nearly overtop of the stump and digging from the far side back into the stump. This lets me dig clear under the root ball to the "tap root" and I've dug out plenty that were so big that I had to dig a ramp to roll them out of the hole...BUT, as I said, bring a lunch. However, cousin Rodney dug out a monster with the JD450 by just going around and around and in very little time. Now, he had one huge hole by the time he was done...but who cares. I couldn't even roll it over with my Kubota after he got it out of the hole.
I'd love to have bigger machines... but I can't move them so I have to compromise. This way I can have a TLB and a dozer...plus it's going to make me a very popular guy with the cousins. :D
Quinton

Mr Mom · October 20, 2006, 03:09:41 PM

I dont know if this will help but have you looked at the J.D crawler/loader that have a backhoe on the back?? I have seen them around and thought that might be what i was looking for.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

beenthere · October 20, 2006, 03:16:40 PM

Is that the Deere TLB 110?

Deere TLB 110

bitternut · October 20, 2006, 08:17:12 PM

Dan are you sure about the weight of the 350? I don't have my books here right now but I was thinking my book listed the weight at about 4 tons. I don't know if that included the blade but I think it did. I will check when I get a chance. Mine also has the full factory rop. I have never had it weighed ready to work but would like to do that some day if I ever find a suitable trailer for it.

bcraw98 · October 20, 2006, 10:20:07 PM

I've got an AC HD-11-B that I bought in 1988 for $8000. It was kinda tired when I got it and it's plum exhausted now. It's paid for itself many times over and was instrumental in saving much of our pine plantations from a forest fire, though we still lost 90 acres. I agree with much of what Tom said and don't use Old Smokey much anymore, but when a pool needs dug or major stuff needs moved, he still gets the nod when he's capable of moving :D My tractors and skidsteer handle most things............but sometimes bigger is better.

Dangerous_Dan · October 20, 2006, 11:01:09 PM

Bitternut and anyone else concerned-
I checked the maunal.
Diesel loader (has front end loader installed NO ROPS) 11,570 pounds.
Diesel tractor (they don't show a blade in the pic just the machine NO ROPS) 7895 pounds. Your right about 4 tons but for the bare machine.
They don't show or give a weight for the machine with the dozer blade and frame. Both my machines have the 6 way blade. You have 5 hydraulc cylinders, a lot of hoses and the blade and frame. My guess would be 1500 to 2500 pounds for this maybe more. So maybe 10,500 with the dozer?
DD

sandmar · October 20, 2006, 11:59:46 PM

Well fellas, I have had a JD450C crawler loader with a 4in1 bucket for probably 10 years now and don't know how i did without it. I would love to find a backhoe to slap on the rear end of it but have not found one that was not worn out so far. I have built ponds and cleared pastures and pushed up trees to be milled and dug stumps,that is a slow process.The 4in1 ,or as some call it the clam shell bucket ,sure makes life easier. You can dig or use it like a bulldozer or pull things to you in places you can't get behind to push.My favorite around the mill is picking up logs and placing them right where you want them,just open the clamshell drop it over the log and squeeze.Although,I had some 18' by 36" diameter logs that made it sorta light on the back rollers.I am not sure,but have been told that this rig weighs about 16,500lbs.
Hope this helps.
Sandmar

sandman2234 · October 21, 2006, 06:40:25 AM

I agree with Tom on the rubber tires, they get trailered a lot less due to the ability to move them across the street without tearing up the road.
David from jax

bitternut · October 24, 2006, 10:30:15 PM

Well I finally got around to looking up my operators manual for my 350C. The book lists operating weights for loaders and bulldozers. The weights listed are operating weights so I assume that means full of fluids and ready to run.

The loader operating weight with rops is 12,400#

6300 bulldozer operating weight with rops is 10,150#

6305 bulldozer operating weight with rops is 10,600#

6310 bulldozer operating weight with rops is 10,400

I have the 6305 model bulldozer and it is heavier than I previously thought.

GF · October 25, 2006, 03:09:49 PM

Another option would be to possibly rent a dozer, we looked at buying once to do some work at one time. We ended up renting a JD550H for $1090 for a week that price included delivery and pickup, we priced it for an entire month and it was $3090 for a month. Just another option to look at. During the rental had a hydraulic pump go out, called the rental place and they sent a dealer out to repair it onsite at their expense.