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White Oak Deck

Started by VA-Sawyer, October 21, 2006, 03:03:20 PM

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VA-Sawyer

My folks have a new house in the western part of North Carolina. Dad is looking to put a deck all the way around the house, but was shocked at the price of treated lumber at the big box store. I said that I could cut him a bunch of White Oak heartwood for decking materials. Question is... will the W.O. hold up near as well as the pressure treated stuff in deck use?
VA-Sawyer

mike_van

I don't see why it wouldn't, but it may need to be treated every few years with Cuprinol or something like it.  I'd keep the deck boards 6" - Wider ones want to cup & move more. Supposed to be bark side up too I believe - That helps too.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

The first question is... :P
Is is a sheltered porch or an open, exposed deck?

White Oak is very unforgiving in the early drying stage.  If you used it for a floor of a sheltered porch, it might do well, but it would need to be carefully dried first, at least air dried.  The trick is to dry very slowly during the initial stages.  Here is an example:

Heart White Oak could be stickered under a shelter and shielded from wind blowing into the pile.   Winter drying conditions would be gentler.   If dried "outdoors," you would want to put a cover over the pile, but also wrap the pile with weed-block type fabric or Shade-Dri to retard evaporation.

Any oak exposed to much weather will crack.  White Oak would certainly need excellent sealing against water absorption, for the sake of the cracking/splitting which would take place when it re-dried each cycle.   This is why it would do better as the floor of a sheltered porch.   Rotting would be the least of your problems.  The "Biggie" would be the problem of letting it get re-wetted by rain and then splitting when it dried the next time.

Drying White Oak will definitely learn ya' a thang or two! ;D

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

VA-Sawyer

The plan is 5/4 X 6" boards. I haven't seen the house yet, but I think it will be an unsheltered deck.  Just from a few numbers dad has given me, it sounds like we are talking around 2500 sq ft of deck.  I don't want to be giving them a bum steer on this one. Has anyone built a deck with WO ?
VA-Sawyer

rebocardo

In any southern state my concern would be insects above all else.

Personally, I think the quality of the PT wood is junk quality. I would deal with any problems and cut your father some oak.   8)  Just take steps to preserve it on all sides.


beenthere

Good quality PT wood is available, just likely not in the box stores from what I can tell.
However, I can get clear SYP treated at my local lumber yard in the radius-edge decking. I usually sort out just the sapwood, and don't use any with heartwood that won't take treatment.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Cypress Man

I'm not sure about the conditions where you are from, but here in southern Louisiana, I would have many concerns about using oak as exposed decking.  Depending on the grade of the oak you may have trouble with checking, warping, twisting, insect damage, etc....  In the humid conditions we have here, I don't think it would last more than 5-6 yrs before rotting.  With the size deck, time, labor, and material cost, it would be a shame to invest so much into a potential disaster.  Other more suitable materials such as cedar, cypress, redwood, or treated pine may be more cost effective in the long run.  Good Luck! 
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fencerowphil (Phil L.)

A thought to add to some already posted:

In my area (central Georgia) there is one treatment facility for Creosote and one for old CCA and the newer and less-effective ACQ, which are within practical hauling distance of me.

If you could team up with a farmer who wants some CCA treatment, you can still get the good stuff - permissible for certain uses.   That way you could cut decent beetle-kill pine and have it treated yourself.

My last quote on Creosote (not practical for a deck, of course) was $300/M, but that was a while ago, before oil prices shot up.  Does anyone have a cost figure on CCA agricultural use treatment?
Some research showed that DanG in Florida found a price on CCA at $150/M.  
ANYBODY ELSE?
Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

woodbeard

One more thought- don't forget to round the edges of the boards.
I can see splinters being a problem otherwise. :o

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Woodbeard

The leaves were shore purty in TINuhsee this week!
8)
Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

ARKANSAWYER


   I have used white oak for an exposed deck and it was airdried 6 months before being used.   That was over 10 years ago.   One of the pressure treated 2x12's rotted out so far but none of the deck boards.
  The trick is to make sure it can dry out between each rain.   White oak does not really absorb water or sealers (hence why they make whiskey barrels from them)   Only seal the top side as the bottom needs to breath.   Air drying also weeds out any the will bow or warp badly.  ERC and black locust are good choices as well as walnut.
   From what I have seen from ACQ the cost of SS fastners that cost as much as the lumber and it does not seem to last as long.
ARKANSAWYER

ladylake

VA  I built one out of WO 3 years ago. Still looks like new. Also sell a lot od white oak for high end trailer decking.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

woodbeard

QuoteThe leaves were shore purty in TINuhsee this week!


Yes indeed!  :)

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Well, VA...

From what Arky and LadyL. have said,  it appears that you would be better off with
true Quercus Alba that you would be with the new ACQ treated pine.
:P   ???
I am curious on this one point:   Your "White Oak" as a lumber group is one thing.
                                                 The species "White Oak" is another.
                                                 The species "White Oak" is only Quercus Alba - the
                                                 absolute king of the white oak group.
                                                 Since you live amongst 'em, you already know that. ;D

For the sake of others who do not live in Virginia and may have been confused by this
lumber group stuff like I have been, consider this:

Please, please, don't think that all the white oak lumber group can perform as described.
They can not.   :-\ Some of them have no rot resistance A-tall!   Others will split like crazy.
Quercus Alba earned its reputation fair and square.  Down south we have to be careful.
Loggers treat all whites the same.   You have far more true White Oak in Virginia, so
the situation may be very different.   Down here I would have to see the bark and leaves,
because we have two trees which, by the bark, and even the grain of the wood, could
fool you:  Swamp White is one and the other name won't come to mind right now.

After hearing all the comments I think my preferences would be these:
I would Borate treat the joists with multiple coats of
homemade mix and coat the underside of the deck boards. 
That would keep the powder posties from making toast out of your framing.
Coat the top of the deck only with a penetrating sealer. 
Finally, I believe I would go with as much vertical grain as I could. 
That would limit cupping.

Well...
Whatchagonadoooo?[/b] [/color]

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Tom

Chestnut white oak is the other.

I've seen live oak sold as white oak.   Live Oak has a beauty of its own, but it can't be treated, or expected to perform, the same as White Oak.  Live Oak also has a reputation for being difficult in just about every respect, Even to the point of contrariness about its being a white oak, red oak, or a species of its own.

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Thanks, Tom.
I had a splinter in my synapses on that one.

Now that I have a good mill to cut some Live Oak, I don't have none to cut!
The last time I met up with some Quercus Virginiana, it was with a Stihl 090
on a chainsaw mill in Swainsboro, GA.  The retired pulp-wooder who watched
me cut that one up in his church side yard got a kick out of me killin' mahselff!

The tree had been down about a year.  Thank goodness we had experienced a
wet summer!  Only cut through a couple of nails and part of an outdoor
floodlight fixture to make things go even easier.
:D     :D   :D

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Tom Sawyer

Quote from: Phil L. on October 24, 2006, 09:43:47 PM
Thanks, Tom.
I had a splinter in my synapses on that one.

Phil L.

OUCH!!! smiley_furious3 smiley_furious3 smiley_furious3 smiley_furious3

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