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Alternative energy - Windmills

Started by SwampDonkey, October 06, 2006, 06:34:08 PM

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SwampDonkey

I get the willies just climbing 30 feet up the roof to the flu. :D The one time I did it was last fall removing honeycomb on the inside of the flu from them darn honeybees. Who would ever imagine them things going 40 feet (from basement) in the air to build a hive and no roof over it. ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Samuel

Why the heck were you up there?  I too remember those fields when I was just a pup.   I am sure SD can tell me where my Grandpa's farm was.  Been too long for me to remember the exact coordinates.
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SwampDonkey

Aerial view video using Google Maps and Maptitude.

http://youtu.be/1ikSEIj1gJI
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Brad_S.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on June 11, 2010, 06:38:09 PM
Brad, is that paved up there or just crushed stone?
SD,
I didn't see this question back when it was posted.
The road is gravel, much of it is just ground up stone from blasting out the rock for the turbine bases.
At least the gravel at Mars Hill is a little rounded. Our Stetson Mtn site (Danforth) has roads made of sharp stone...very rare not to go the full length of that road and not get a slashed tire!
Also, per an earlier question, yes, the Mars Hill turbines are numbered from north to south.
I will be there Monday. Need to check the integrity of the guy anchors on the lattice MET towers for corrosion due to stray ground current.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

SwampDonkey

Yes I know what that sharp shale can do to 4 and 6 ply tires. One reason for 10 ply on my woods truck. ;D

Play safe up there. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

GlennCz

Quote from: SawDust_Studios on October 10, 2006, 11:03:33 PM
I'm all for consevation, but I'd be willing to lose an occasional bird around my area to get my electric bill down.   ;)

These alternatives are really becoming more affordable and anything you put back into the grid, the local electric companies got to pay for it. Now that part, I really like.  8)  Get money from the electric company for electric.
Your electric bill and tax bill go up with wind turbines.  It's an expensive, inefficient way to produce electricity.  The only reason ANY turbine is built is because of politics.  The so-called alternative are not affordable, unless you think paying double(wind) to three to four(solar) time your current electric bill is affordable. 

If an engineer brought up the idea of wind turbines to produce power for our grid 40 years ago, he would have been laughed out of the room for such a silly idea.  But now, many of the grids are in on it.  It is us consumers, taxpayers, citizens, and lovers of the environment that pay the price for it.  The politicians get both money and votes out of it. 

It takes about 2,000 turbines to replace on very small natural gas plant.  Or one VERY, VERY small coal mine could produce enough coal to do so.  Actually strike that, even with the 2,000 turbines you need the coal or gas plant.  It would take 5,000 turbines to produce the same amt of energy the nuclear plant produces that runs this laptop.  And you still need the nuclear plant.

It's complicated, that's why very few people understand it, and it sounds like a good idea, a sure win.  It's a sure loser for everyone but the politicians and the investors. 

Ianab

Have to disagree a bit on the "totally impractical" summation. NZ currently generates about 5% of it's power from ~450 wind turbines and is looking to increase that to ~20% in the future. Installed turbines are rated for ~650 mW, and achieve 30-50% capacity depending on the site. Now this may be a special case, lots of wind, lots of hydro power to back up the turbines etc.

Now it's certainly not practical in every situation, but those generators have been built as commercial undertakings, to make money for the power companies. Sure they are rather expensive to build, but the operating cost are relatively low, and hence the are economically feasible.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

GlennCz

>Sure they are rather expensive to build, but the operating cost are relatively low, and hence the are economically feasible.

Okay.  Let's say you spend $60/week on gasoline.  (being a logger it is probably much, much more).  But how about I try to save you some money.  At the beginning of the year you just give me $5,000 and then you can go and fill up every week for $1.  Just think, you'll be saving $59/week. 

Wind turbines are nonsense and expensive to power a grid.  The more you look into it, the more you will find that to be true.  In every country with high wind/solar generation there are high electricity costs to go with it.  They save us absolutely nothing and destroy the landscape.  They are waste of our resources of metal and concrete to build the mammoth structures.  Also, because of their highly variable output, it is quite debatable whether they even save us anything at all in fossil fuel use. 

Here is a link to the wind output in Ireland, a windy island.  The total output can vary by a large percent in just a few hours or less. This is true wherever they are found.
http://www.eirgrid.com/operations/systemperformancedata/windgeneration/

Anyone who is for the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, politicians making money and re-elected, our environment being destroyed (think sacrificed), our grids being de-stabilized - then you should be all for them.

Just like logging is a dirty, destructive business in some regards, in supplying necessary wood products, so is creating electricity for our society.  Of course the ring-leaders of this scam, only care about lining their own pockets and they are for us citizens having less money, harder lives and slowing down human progress.  Kind of funny that their access to what most of consider the good things in life and prosperity is never halted. 

SPIKER

Wind and Solar are on par, they BOTH work part of the time...    Electricity needs to flow ALL of the time so when wind is blowing or sun shining the power plants (Coal Nuke Nat Ga are running) they are still burning just about as much as if they were powering EVERYTHING and costs are ABOUT THE SAME to keep them idling for when the Sun/Wind is not blowing.    Waste of $ for sure on these grand scales.

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Ianab

That may be why NZ is a different case. The majority of our power is from hydroelectric, which is also a variable supply. But it's a controlled variable. If the wind isn't blowing, you can drain down the storage lakes and run the hydro stations at full output (for a while) When the wind is blowing,, shut down the hydro, and store the water (power) for later. We do also have a handful of coal or gas stations as well.

I agree the problem is the inconsistent supply. You either need backup or storage, both of which are expensive.

But another place where it's becoming practical is remote Pacific Islands. Most have diesel generators at the moment (no nat gas or coal) That IS probably the most expensive (commercial) way to generate power, especially once you ship the diesel to the middle of nowhere. They still end up keeping the generators, but hopefully only using them ~10% of the time.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Thehardway

Trying to stay non political on this subject and be objective without giving offense...   Wind power is great if the embodied energy in the project does not exceed the net output of the turbine during its lifecycle.  Wind turbines located on windswept plains, offshore, or on coastal regions make a lot of sense and can be big producers.

Wind turbines located along mountain ridgelines can be giant energy suckers which sometimes produce power but would seldom be built if it wasn't for government regulations and incentive programs. Of course this is a generality but think about it in practical terms.

The energy resources that are consumed in building and maintaining the roads and transmission lines to these remote areas by bulldozers, trucks, graders cranes etc. then the energy embodied in building the turbines generator, the nacelle and the blades, transporting them to the mountain top and assembling them, excavating the foundations, refining and hauling the massive amounts of concrete for the foundations.   The petroleum used to lubricate the units that has to be hauled up to the site and changed on a regular basis, these all have to be balanced by a turbine that sits idle a fair amount of time and then has to be furled or braked during high wind events.  This is not a model of efficiency.

They are great pieces of engineering and they have created a lot of jobs in an otherwise bleak jobs economy but they are not "free energy" like some in the past have extolled them to be.  They will never be a long term solution for clean dependable power. There are risks and dangers involved in them.  There is a balance to nature and energy.  Nothing is "free".  Wind, Hydro, nuclear, coal, gas, they all have their problems. 

The issue with birds is not that they get hit with the blades, it is that many of the birds seem to think they are trees and want to fly around them. When they pass through the low pressure zone created by the back of the blade while it is turning it somehow kills them.  Biologists are still not sure what the solution or cause is.  In the overall scope of environmental impact on birds, the reduction of nesting sites for some migratory birds and bats in these mountain top regions has far more impact than the few birds killed outright. To look at the blade, it appears to be turning slowly but the tips are approaching 180 MPH when operating at maximum output. There is over 200 tons of air pressure on the blade. That will make a lot more than your ears pop.

We have green energy activists fighting to put up the turbines here in Virginia while other green environmental activists like the Sierra club are fighting against them.  It's almost comical to see these two groups which both claim to promote world peace fight like a bunch of cats.  One group straps themselves to trees in front of bulldozers clearing mountain tops while the other stakes out the entrance to the nearby coal mines and nuclear plants with hate signs.  It has been great for the lawyers as they seem to make money either way.

Politicians want to brag about what they are doing to advance green energy and create jobs but they are scared of their wealthy donors that have mountain top retreats and coastal vacation homes and don't want the turbines in their view shed.  Meanwhile, back at the working man's ranch, the price of electricity continues to rise and the power companies get rate increase approvals to to meet new carbon reduction goals.  They get "carbon credits" for funding wind turbines as well as plenty of incentive money for "green power initiatives"  It's sad when there are lots of privately funded clean power technologies that are dying because they can't get permitted to build them.

In a few years, not only will the US have the highest corporate taxes, we will also have the highest energy costs.  This is two strikes against anyone wanting to manufacture or transport a product.  We haven't had a good national energy policy in place in over 30 years.  It's time for a change.

I favor offshore and coastal wind projects but don't see ridge line wind farms as sensible.  I favor small wind power, produced locally and independently.



Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

OneWithWood

I agree that decentralized small power generation is a large part of the solution; however, that only works if the major grids are upgraded to be smart grids and the small producers are compensated reasonably (read that as somewhere between wholesale and retail rates ).  That only happens with government subsidies.
Coal is dirty and the modern methods of extraction such as mountain top removal are worse than the old strip mines which could be reclaimed. 
We, as a country, consume inordinate amounts of energy compared to most of the world.  It stands to reason we should be paying a premium if we continue to be one of the largest polluters of the atmosphere.  Yes, I know China is not far behind, but they are just getting going.  We have been filling the air with greenhouse gasses for a long, long time.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Brucer

It doesn't matter what the source of electrical energy, there is always a problem with a mismatch between demand and supply. Electrical grids have to be sized to handle peak demand. This can be more than double average demand. Similarly, the electrical source has to be able to meet peak demand. This has always been a problem for traditional electrical utilities. New energy sources could make the problem worse, or improve it.

In some regions solar energy may be at its maximum at about the same time demand peaks. In some regions, wind energy may be greatest at night, when peak demand is low. A sensible energy strategy ought to include an analysis of where wind and solar are most likely to alleviate peak demand on the existing grid.

Some companies (e.g. LightSail) are looking at practical ways to store energy when demand is low and return it when demand is high.

There are amazing breakthroughs happening with electric vehicles. Tesla already has a viable high-performance car with a decent range. They are building a network of charging stations up the West Coast and into Canada. And they just placed all their patents in the public domain.

Phinergy has made an aluminum-air battery that weighs 1/5 as much as the batteries in a Tesla model S, but will go 6 times as far without needing a recharge. The downside is that the battery is "recharged" by reprocessing it at an aluminum smelter. The real benefit, though, is that it can be added to a conventional electric car and used only if the regular battery runs out before it can be recharged.

This is all very well, but ... there is little point in replacing internal combustion engines with electric motors if you have to use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge the batteries. Charging during off-peak demand on the grid will reduce the need to upgrade transmission lines. However, you also need to have non-petroleum energy sources during those off-peak times.

Some Canadian researchers are developing a low-cost solar technology based on nano-particles. The product will be in the form of a paint, or an ink, that can literally be painted onto a non-conducting surface.

Now, back to wind ;). There are problems with common horizontal-shaft wind turbines. We wouldn't have known about them if we hadn't tried. But people have been learning a lot about vertical-shaft wind turbines. In theory they aren't as efficient; in practice it turns out that by spacing them in clusters the wasted energy off one can be recovered by adjacent turbines.

Bottom line -- there is a whole lot going on in the field of alternate energy right now. As soon as a problem is uncovered, someone jumps in trying to solve it. It's all very chaotic at the moment but that's good. That's when the innovative and practical ideas will start to emerge.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Brucer

Oh, yes. If you should be planning a trip through southern BC in an electric car, be sure to come visit. The tiny city of Rossland has two public charging stations ;D.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Thehardway

Once upon a time, people were scared of electricity.  The only experience they had with it was seeing lightning strike.  Tesla was known as a crazy man and Edison not far behind making people scared by electrocuting vast numbers of animals to prove his DC power superior over AC eventually inventing the first electric chair and doing a poor job of killing a human being.  No wonder acceptance was not initially wide spread.  My grandfather was a gas and oil man.  When electricity came to his small town in western Pennsylvania through the rural electrification act, he said it was too dangerous for him.  He preferred to continue burning gas lights in the house.

Most of us have an intense fear of things we are unfamiliar with.  It is part of nature.  Deer will run the first time they see you but after a while they become familiar and unless you shoot at them or otherwise harm them, they will eventually adapt to human presence.

Humans are not much different.  Unfortunately, the first attempts we make at anything usually have quite terrible results.  The first ICE powered automobiles that ran the streets faced a lot of resistance because they produced smoke, were loud, backfired and scared horses and people causing chaos and went too fast for the narrow streets of the day.

The first electric cars had the opposite problem but the same effect.  People claimed, (and still do) that they were too quiet and gave no warning of approach and as such were a danger. 

Most people thought at one time that if people were meant to fly, God would have given them wings like birds.  He didn't but he gave us something much more powerful, the human mind which makes flight possible (though not as efficient as birds flight)

By this same method of development, is it any wonder that wind power has its casualties?  (Understanding that wind turbines are not new, it is just the electrical production part that is new)

The point is that everything has its place.  Americas biggest problem when it comes to power/energy is greed and our mentality that bigger is better and large scale is always the way to maximize profit.  It leads to inordinate amounts of waste. 

Large centralized power generation will always suffer inefficiencies due to unpredictable loads and peak demand as well as distribution losses and costs.  Pumped storage hydro seemed to be a great solution to this as you could store power for when you needed it but once again, the bigger is better mentality took over and the next thing we knew, every major river was dammed up and this had a direct environmental impact perhaps larger than any other energy source known to man.  We are now aware of these impacts and dams are being breached and removed at a huge cost. This does not mean we should abandon hydro-power.  We just need to be smarter about how we do it and look at the long term risk/benefit in each location.

Coal mining can be done with modern methods in clean, responsible ways.  So can drilling. For that matter so can nuclear micro-reactors. The problem is that greed and profit are short term and environmental impacts are long term.  Ask the asbestos companies about it.

Vertical wind turbines have some unique virtues about them and have a certain mystique that cause continued interest although in most applications they have proven to be more costly and less efficient than horizontal axis turbines.  There are places where they can be used at advantage.

Until now most wind turbines have been manufactured to produce power in a very narrow band of wind speed.  They begin producing at at between 6-10 MPH and are good up to about 30MPH at which point they begin to have overspeed issues  they like non-turbulent laminar wind flows.  Unfortunately, this slow steady laminar flow is not the way the wind blows at the mojority of locations where people live.  it is actually very unpleasant to live in areas where wind blows steady at speeds conducive to good production with today's turbines.  Once again this is because we have adopted a bigger is better mentality.

I visualize a different world of wind turbines that are two speed turbines with one or more on every rooftop in America.  They would spin at the slightest breeze and produce only a trickle charge at this low speed. It is the quantity of them spread across large areas that would make them effective.  When the winds pick up, they would engage a secondary stage and produce high outputs with the additional resistance slowing the blades to allow operation in winds over 60 MPH.  For those of you who have studied wind power, you understand that power production increases at an exponential rate with wind speed increase.  You could produce more power in a brief thunderstorm with 60 MPH winds than you can with several days of steady 10MPH winds if the turbines would function in those adverse conditions.  The 60 mph thunderstorm winds however are often turbulent and hard on the average horizontal axis turbine.  VAWT's do better in rapidly shifting and turbulent winds. Some of this is due to inefficiency and some due to the fact that the spiral blade arrangement is always 180 degrees to the wind in one point regardless of how rapid the direction change is.

This model uses large scale production of small units to drive down manufacturing costs and make the small turbines affordable and easy to install with less environmental impact rather than producing a few large scale turbine units at a high manufacturing cost and with a large environmental impact.  The large commercial scale units still have a place in offshore wind farms where they operate at maximum efficiency.

The real answer to energy issues is planning and conservation not constantly increasing production.

By the way, for those who are curious, my aunt had the power company install electric in my grandfathers house while he was out of town one time.  He was very upset when he returned and the gas lights were gone but after a few years of living with electricity, he became a big fan of it, even though he was a gas and oil man.  Everything has its place, its all about finding where it fits and is most efficient.


Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Randy88

Thehardway, your partly right on the idea of a windmill on every roof top, but your about a 100 years too late, its already been done in the past in rural areas.    Before rural electric came through the area, there were wind chargers to charge batteries stored in the basement to run electric lights and appliances in the house.   My grandpa used to have two of them to contend with, one on each farm at that time.      He wasn't a big fan of them at all from the conversations I had with him before he died, but they did work.   As they say what goes around comes around with enough time, this just maybe one of them, but with much newer and more improved technology to back it up and eliminate a lot of the grief that plagued the much earlier units produced that my grandpa had to contend with, mostly battery issues in the day and the problem of overcharging and draining the batteries totally dead and also with the connection issues to couple them all together. 

What most people need to remember back then, the government also assisted in subsidizing the running of lines throughout the country sides to provide electricity to the rural areas, no different than just about any form of new energy development out there that has ever been invented or tried on a mass scale, but over time it usually pays itself back and more than covers the cost to bring it about in the first place.   

r.man

I don't see the real problem as being how we produce electricity, the real problem is how we use it. Lighting up the night like it was day, air conditioning instead of building with cooling in mind, heating instead of insulating well. Our whole society could use an overhaul on thinking. In the majority of places in North America that have building departments/inspections and an enforced building code no-one will blink an eye if you want to build a 10,000 square ft house for one or two people but most will not let you build a 200 square ft house for the same two people. The mindset of our society and those who govern us is so skewed to profit and consumerism that I fear for our future.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

hamish

Quote from: r.man on November 13, 2014, 09:00:15 PM
I don't see the real problem as being how we produce electricity, the real problem is how we use it. Lighting up the night like it was day, air conditioning instead of building with cooling in mind, heating instead of insulating well. Our whole society could use an overhaul on thinking. In the majority of places in North America that have building departments/inspections and an enforced building code no-one will blink an eye if you want to build a 10,000 square ft house for one or two people but most will not let you build a 200 square ft house for the same two people. The mindset of our society and those who govern us is so skewed to profit and consumerism that I fear for our future.

There will be no common sense in this thread go away!

The hand of our future has already been dealt, all we can do is brace for its impact.
Norwood ML26, Jonsered 2152, Husqvarna 353, 346,555,372,576

Randy88

rman, you absolutely hit the nail on the head, but the major problem is, if you can afford it, someone will let you do it, or you don't even need to ask.    The only downside of what's been going on in the last half dozen decades is, when your done with it, who's going to want to buy it?     We've seen this in houses in the late 1800's and early 1900's, their hotels to say the least, built out of ego mostly and to fit some people heads who were wealthy enough to afford to build them in the first place, some call them status symbols.    But the bottom line is, they are dated, totally inefficient, way overbuilt, highly taxed, high priced to buy and maintain and now, nobody wants them at all.    They are not even remotely desirable and after time goes by, they are abandoned and neglected so badly, they just fall into decay and gone from the landscape completely.   Much like what will happen to some of the houses built in the last few decades around me.   

We went shopping for a retirement house for my folks a few years back, and soon realized there are none out there designed with this in mind, all that were on the market were designed for middle aged or younger people, not someone who can't get around or wheel chair acceptable, and after chatting with realtors in the area, none were built in the last few decades, and those that were are never on the market, they are bought up before ever getting to the market and the wait list is years to find one privately, which we didn't have that kind of time to look, so we ended up building one instead.   But what shocked me was that were houses out there with anywhere from 500 to 1500 bucks a month property taxes on them, and to heat and cool them was even more per month, are people totally crazy to even built those kinds of houses in the first place?   

Hamish, your partly right, the hand is dealt, but just like card games, the next hand is coming around the corner any second, and we can learn from others past mistakes, the key is to not make the same one's yourself and find yourself in the same situation as those that did make them. 

Light bulbs are an amusement to me, for some reason I get a big kick out of them, and the people who complain about them, take my dad for example, he hated the florescent bulbs when they first came out, so he bought up every incandescent bulb he could find, boxes full of them to have on hand.    Well as things go, he had an outrageous electric bill one month, or so he thought, so he hired an electrician to track down the problem in his new house, turned out to be a bad water heater element, no big deal, but he was watching his meter like a hawk for weeks and jotted down all the readings day to day, he knew exactly what his air conditioner took to run, water heater, tv, you name it, he knew the kilowatts it took to run each one on a day to day basis.     So after a few weeks of listening to this unfold, I finally told him I'd bring over a few boxes of those new stupid bulbs with the squiggly tails and put them in everything he had, so I did.    It took a few days to get a call telling me the bulbs could stay and asked if I thought those new high priced LED bulbs would pay for themselves over time, told him to get a few and see for himself and do the math, last week I was over there and he had a few LED bulbs in some of the light sockets where the old incandescent bulbs once were even a few months ago.   I never said a word, but mom made comment about turning him into an efficiency hound seeking out even the smallest thing and doing the math to see if it was cost effective.  I asked about the boxes of old incandescent bulbs he had to stock up on and she told me he donated them to someone else and told my mom he couldn't afford to keep them and use them, they took way too much electricity, but never said a word to me.      Times change and so do people's thinking, I never thought my dad would ever use any new light bulb, but if there's hope for him, things are really looking up for society in general. 

Society in general will find a way to cut costs, maybe not usage, but the cost to have the same usage is what most want and science is geared towards, from light bulbs to water heaters, dishwashers, you name it, its all geared towards efficiency and efficiency sells on a larger scale to the general public, anything that's old technology is doomed in the long term, its about speed and efficiency today, the problem lies in, its not in everything, just consumer items per say.      But time brings about new technologies and also lower costs.     I for one would love to have a windmill on my property for my personal use, but as of today, its not yet low cost enough to justify itself in short term payback, but I'm sure in the near future as costs are lowered, it will eventually come where it is much shorter payback and I'll have one, then I too can complain to my grandkids someday all the problems I had with it.     

tmarch

When I was growing up we had a wind charger, then it wore out so went to a gas motor that ran the alternator, same basic system, 32 volts with large batteries in glass jars.  Now I've replaced my last windmill with solar and I like it a lot better.  Virtually no maintenance and more production for the money spent. 8) 8)
Retired to the ranch, saw, and sell solar pumps.

Kbeitz

I still have a few wind chargers.  I would pay money to be aloud to climb up one of the big wind mills.
We have a lot of them in the northeast part of Pa.



 



 



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

SwampDonkey

There is another string of them around Island Falls, Maine. We take a ride sometimes up on a ridge that used to be a lot more cleared farmland. And we can look across and see them and look in the direction of Mars Hill, Maine and see them also from the same spot.  We're being invaded. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

thecfarm

Never seen pieces like that being trucked. There is a drop off spot in Jay,ME,just about 20 minutes from me. I have seen the blades there and the round towers,but that is it. On the way to work I can see them in Roxbury on a ridge.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Brad_S.

SD, there is a huge one planned on Irving land off Route11 near Merrill in Aroostook. That is if the company (now SunEdison) doesn't go under. Swirling around the toilet bowl at the moment!
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

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