Chainsaw mills vs bandmills

[scgargoyle]

I'm sure this has been on here many times before, but I want to compare chainsaw mills w/ bandsaw mills. I'll probably build my own either way, so it's a matter of which is easiest, cheapest, longest lasting, etc. It will be a hobby mill, for my own woodlot, so production speed and yield are secondary. Which blades last the longest, and are easiest to maintain? What about engine life? When I was cutting trees and firewood for a living 30 years ago, chainsaw engines weren't known for their longevity. At $800 and up for a big saw, I don't want to buy too many of them. By comparison, I would think a big old Kohler on a bandmill would last for years. Has anybody ever tried to run a chainsaw mill w/ a motor like that? I guess it would have to be geared up to the right speed. If nothing else, I would think the noise of a big chainsaw all day would get to you eventually.

[Dan_Shade]

depends on what kind of production you expect.  a chainsaw mill is slow, dusty, and noisy.  a bandsaw is dusty and not as noisy.

it's cheaper and easier to build a chainsaw setup.

what are your goals?

[Tom]

chainsaw mills are like walking to the store
small bandsaw  mills (10 horse)are like riding a moped
larger bandsaw mills (15 horse) are like driving a geo
bigger portable bandsaw mills (20 horse) are like taking a 1ton truck
The biggest portable bandsaw mills (40 horse or larger) are like operating a bulldozer

Chainsaw mills have a purpose.  They are for getting lumber out of places where you can't drive a mill.  Small backyards, river bottoms, Northern wilderness, Southern swamps.  The are relatively slow, laborious, non-production oriented and maintenance heavy.

Bandsaw mills, almost all, use the same blade configurations and will produce the same kerfs and, within reason, saw the same size logs.  Generally they are fed logs from 10" to 30" in diameter.

The bigger the mill, the larger the motor and the faster it will cut.  More horses also provide power for hydraulics that make long handling easier.

Your best bet is to go watch each of these mill operate.  I don't know where you are located now but Moultrie Georgia is just  few hours away.  On Oct. 17,18 and 19, the agricultural fair will be displaying many mills.  Not only will you see chainsaw mills, but bandmills, swingmills and maybe even circle mills too.  It might be the best opportunity you will have over the next year to see all of this stuff and talk with the manufacturers and users alike. 

Check out the topic below, "Shows and places to meet" for dates, times and Forum members who plan to be there.   You can find a motel within 30 miles of the show.

I highly recommend your approaching the problem from this angle as an initial step.  It will be like going from kindergarten straight to college.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

If you want maximum exercise with a minimum investment,
a chainsaw mill will handle your requirements nicely!

Take a Stihl 66 or Husky 395, etc. on a 36" Alaskan mill with
an aux. oiler and a few home made items, and you are ready
to cut a log!  You will spend 1/3 of your time maintaining your
chains and saw - at least it sure seems that way.  As Tom points out,
and Dan Shade alludes to,  it just depends on what you want to do.
:P
I asked myself why I always miss the Moultrie show.   Last month, when Chris
asked me about bringing my Peterson Swingblade to the show, I realized why.  I
had to turn him down, because the wife and I normally get away for our anniversary
the same time of year virtually every year and its that time of the year!  Now don't get
me wrong or question my loyalties to sawmilling, nor question my love of sawdust....
>:(
But in this case we would have some real issues to handle, if I had chosen Moultrie over sweet time with the wifey.  Maybe next year we can work out a compromise of some sort!
;D

Go to the show, Mr. Gargoyle, go to the show!
Phil L.

[Ianab]

Has anybody ever tried to run a chainsaw mill w/ a motor like that?

You would end up with something like a Peterson or Lucas wide slabber. Thats basically the rails and carriage of a normal swingblade mill but with a 5ft chainsaw bar fitted and powered with a 12-24hp 4 stroke. For normal milling it's not really practical, slow, wide kerf and you spend a LOT of time sharpening, compared to a swingblade or bandsaw anyway. It comes into it's own when you want to slab up a 4 or 5ft dia log into table tops though  ;D

If you are cutting normal sized logs and dont need to carry the mill to the logs then think about building a simple bandmill. There are a few current threads about people making their own that should give you some good ideas. It's all pretty much proven technology and you can even buy full plans and make them with off the shelf / salvaged parts.

Chainsaw mills are best for BIG logs, logs you cant get at any other way, and people who just want to prove it can be done  ;)

Cheers

Ian

[PawNature]

I have had them both and really enjoyed the chainsaw mill. I did not build either though.
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=415&pos=5. I now have a norwood and would never go back to the chainsaw mill unless I needed to do some wide slabbing or something similar.

[scgargoyle]

Well, if I build a chainsaw mill, it will more like a bandmill carriage anyway- 4 post carriage, and rigid bed to guide it. Not very portable, and that's not my intent. I'd really like to pour a concrete slab for my barn, and do my milling there, where I can level everything and it will stay that way. I've run a bandmill for an hour or so that my friend has. I really liked it; just figured I'd hear both sides. I'm a toolmaker, so building either one would be a fun project, but not much of a challenge. As for useage, I'm buying 7 acres of mostly white oak, and I'd like to use it for more than firewood. The trees are fairly small, but there's a lot of 'em. I could use the lumber for the barn and maybe a few household items, like a mantlepiece or something. As I said- a hobby. It'd be nice to sell enough to recover the cost of the mill. I've had dreams of running a small custom mill, but that will probably never happen.

[Dave T]

I built a PROCUT CHAINSAWMILL and I am very pleased with with the results.
I can cut a little bit more than 20' long and 24" in dia. and it leaves a decent
finish. It is portable has log ramps to assist in loading when it is not next to the
log pile.I am using a 3120 xp Husky with a 36' bar and cuts alot faster and easier
than a Alaskan mill , no dust , lots of chips but no wavy lumber like a bandmill.
Chainsaw comes with a 2yr. warranty , rip chain is cheap and can go through
bark without dulling and needing a debarker. Plus you can sharpen the chain with
a $1 file ( not having to send your blades out to be sharpened $$or buying a sharpener and tooth setter for a $1000.00 or more ). I can saw a 2" board out of a 8" - 12' cant of pine in about a minute, fast enough for me, I just saw for myself. For $2,000.00 give or take $50.00 I built it with some scrap and new materials including the new saw.It is not that hard to build if you have some welding and mechanical skills.

I see your from S.C.

I live in Moncks Corner S.C. if you would like to see the mill in action, just contact me.

Dave T

[Gustavo]

toms you make me smile

good comparations betwen the sawmills  :D :D :D

chain saw  thickness are  much diferents  too

chain saw  more than 8 mm

band mill  around 3mm   

that is to say  3 boards less by timber   if you cut   1 inch

if the  timber is for free no problem but if you pay for it >:( >:(

[oldsaw]

Different purposes.  As a "suburban assault" miller, I love my chainsaw mill.  I have access to a bandsaw mill.  Yes, the bandsaw mill is better for most things, but:

1) My initial investment was under $700 for a used 066, 3 rip chains, Alaskan mill, 2x8 guide board, and other accouterments.  My first logs yielded about 400 bd ft of lumber...oak and walnut.  Investment paid for.

2) I store my mill hung from my ceiling in the garage.  I don't have room to park a bandmill.

[img width=450 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/y291/mhitterdal/P1010078.jpg[/img]

3) You know how much a bandmill with a 36" throat costs...$$$$   

[img width=450 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/y291/mhitterdal/a7fa.jpg[/img]

4) JR's Norwood only has a 20" throat, so I get to make the big stuff smaller.

[img width=400 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/y291/mhitterdal/bigwalnut.jpg[/img]

5) I can pack my mill, my stuff, and 300 bf of freshly milled wood in my wife's Windstar.

6) I'm a low volume wood user, and mill primarily for myself.

Mark

Modified to fix picture screw-up

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

With the plan you now have (4-post, rigid bed, etc.) you could build a frame work into which you could fasten either a chainsaw bar set-up or a bandsaw head set-up.

You asked about running a chainsaw bar with a large four-stroke motor.  The "Dedicated Slabbers" which run on the Peterson rail system use a gear box to attain the right chain speed.  They apply 24 h.p. to that chain.  

 Zoom! [/i] [/color]  [/size]
Phil L.

[jpgreen]

After running a chainsaw mill for 6 years, then moving up to an LT40, my jaw just dropped when I looked at the amount of lumber I milled from my first log.

Holy cow.  I've been leaving a ton of sawdust on the ground.  The band blade kerf that everyone made the big deal about, really is a big deal.  Hands down produces MUCH more lumber.

My new neighbor has a swinger, and he was blown away by the recovery of the Woodmizer.

[jpgreen]

Other things I don't like about the chainsaw mill is the noise and the fumes.  No way, no more.
I've got a 3120, and they ain't quiet..  ;D

[Ianab]

This is the super-sized Lucas chainsaw mill. The bar is 9 ft long, the log the guys are sawing here is 7ft dia, it's now being made into very expensive tables.





For this sort of job a chainsaw mill is simply the best option.

Cheers

Ian

[jpgreen]

Awe...  That's just Rex's play toy..  :D

[thecfarm]

Nice pictures Ianab.I did not catch the size of the log until I saw the 2 men on top of it.Wow,just does not do it.Was the tree there or was it trucked in?If it was trucked in,took some big equipment to get it there.

[Ianab]

The 'log' was only about 7ft long (and 7ft across). It was the stump of a kauri tree dug out of a swamp where it had been buried for the last 2,000 years.
They trucked it in and sawed it up at the Ag Fieldays this year.

This is what they were cutting 



Ian

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Thanks, Ianab.

Never seen a multiple cut-out bar like that.  Looks like
it would help tremendously with bar sag across such a long span.

Phil L.

[sawguy21]

 8) Now that would require some serious power. Wow!!

[solodan]

you could build a frame work into which you could fasten either a chainsaw bar set-up or a bandsaw head set-up.

I agree. You could make a portable chainsawmill like an Alaskan, and then have it be able to ride right on the rails of the band saw mill if you would like. I don't think there is any substitute for an Alaskan mill. I have a Lucas 827 and still use my Alaskan and 3120 to cut table tops and mantels sometimes. I know some guys that run an LT 70 and still use their Alaskan sometimes as well. If you have a big ol tree down in some creek bed and you need a few wide slabs, then a chainsaw mill is the way to go in my opinion. I a situation like that a chainsaw is way faster. You would be done before any one could even fiqure out how to set up a bandmill there or how to get the log out.

[jpgreen]

I really like the saw marks from a chainsaw mill.  My Woodbug cut at about 40 dgrees, and I love taking a belt sander, or just skipping the surface in a plane to keep the effect.  Woodmizer can't do that.

I like it so much so, I'm thinking about making a planer of sorts that has a bar chain at the same angle as my Woodbug was.  That way I can feed boards off the woodmizer, through the chainsaw planer just to get the chain marks.

Am I sick or what?..  :D

[solodan]

Pat, I know what you mean, cause I love the cross hatch saw marks a circular blade makes. I think it was part of the reason I bought the Lucas. ;D
Sometimes I even paint a board black and then sand it off the high spots. It has an old timber look to it.

[rebocardo]

Using ripping chain, my lumber from my chainsaw mill (Procut trailer) was as smooth as planed lumber once I had it set up right. I never went for the Alaska thing because I do not like doing chainsawing on my knees and prefer to walk with the saw standing upright.

I like Tom's post comparing the saws.

Though I used my chainsaw mill to cut sheets "paper thin" you could see through, just for kicks and to make sure it was set up square, it is mostly useful for 2x-3x stuff or making large cants.

I would say build the cheapest whatever, if the wood sells, upgrade.

If going chainsaw mill, I would make a trailer, that could be leveled with jacks, and make it a Procut. You can still use it for a trailer, sell it as a trailer, use the saw, or sell the saw. A big saw, ex. 3120 will always sell for close to what you paid for it used as they hold their value.

Remember to replant some trees after you cut them down. Planting something that will produce valuable wood (cedar, oak if you can wait  ;) ) would be a good thing for future generations. 

[scgargoyle]

rebocardo- I don't plan to clear the land, except for a barn, house, and small pasture. The trees on the lot are very close together, so a lot of thinning is called for. This is a great debate, and like all great debates, the answer isn't crystal clear. I'll probably tend in the direction of a bandmill, b/c the technology is more familiar to me (been running all sorts of bandsaws all my life) and I like the idea of a big ol' Kohler chugging away rather than the scream of a chainsaw. I wish I still had my spare Farmall Cub engine...60 cubic inch- would make a sweet little mill engine. BTW- my friend in CT sold his bandmill (didn't get the brand name) after a couple projects, b/c he got tired of everyone bugging him to mill their logs.

[Raphael]

  I like the fine pit sawn look I get from softer woods on the Logosol, it sort of pops up as the lumber dries, hardwoods seem to stay smoother.


This is a poplar 2x4, the moth was nearly invisible until I moved the light.

 When I invested in a mill my focus was timbers and specialty cuts.  Kerf loss isn't an issue when you are selectively harvesting trees to match the desired timbers, the cost of extensions is (I'm currently at 27').  Logosol's M7 design is cantilevered much like Wood-Mizer's, with a chainsaw it allows milling of oversized logs.  If I were building from scratch I think I'd take a good look at the frame of an LT40 for my design ideas.  Right now I'm thinking about Logosol's 3 phase bandsaw head and another 2 meters of mill.  :D