I Think It's a Good Question

[Terry]

I was givin some red and white oak tottem poles ( trees that had been topped and didn't survive). They were topped 1 year ago. When I cut the first Red it was a little soft about an inch into it, then got solid. No sign's of checking. I got a 16' and a 8' from that log. 24" dia. at base. OK, my question is, why not ring the tree (kill it) let stand for a year or so to dry naturally, then fall and saw.

[Timburr]

You'll wish you hadn't when you come to mill it. There will be localised hard spots where irregular drying has taken place. Condusive to blade wandering. If you want good boards, mill it fresh felled.

Another factor is you'll have a miriad of "widow-makers" (dead branches) ready to bombard you, when it's time for felling. 

[WH_Conley]

Terry, think DEATH TRAP. I have dealt with standing dead trees beforeand sure did not want to. Timburr is correct, the dead limbs will tangle up and you will have no way of knowing where they will go.

[PineNut]

When I come on one of those dead trees (widow makers), I approach it with caution.  Usually I will put a long cable (longer than the tree is tall) and using the tractor, shake the tree as much as possible. This usually gets the loose dead limbs to fall off. Sometimes if the tree has been dead for a long time (and not good for timber) the tree will break off. This is even better.

[thecfarm]

I would not want to do it.I do cut dead trees,but mother nature killed them.Dead trees can and have broke off when they start to fall,and have hurt and killed many people. Dead trees act alot differant than a live tree.I would give up on this idea real fast.

[pineywoods]

Ditto what these guys are saying, cutting dead timber is a whole different ballgame. Like pinenutt, I use a LONG cable (200 ft) hooked to good-sized tractor. Don't ever depend on using wedges on a dead tree. If there is a pile of dead branches on the ground around the trunk, leave it alone. Let mother nature take care of it, likely it's no good for lumber anyway. We see a lot of lightening killed and bug killed timber here in the south. They are aptly named WIDOW MAKERS. As for sawing lumber from dead trees, it's a crapshoot. Sometimes the lumber is perfectly good, other times it's worthless. The only way to tell for sure is to put a sawblade to it.

[Corley5]

LOTS of loggers were hurt or killed by elms killed by Dutch Elm Disease.  I'm one that was hurt by one

[sawguy21]

Standing dead is nothing to mess with. The tops and branches can be widow makers, I make DanG sure there is nothing to hit on the way down.

[Terry]

I do understand the dangers of dead limbs. But these trees were topped and they have no limbs. They are just straight poles. They died after being topped. They were topped last year. The complete top was removed at the crotch.One year dead, will they have hard spots? The one red oak that I fell seemed to cut as easy as a live tree. I will stay away from dead tree's with limb's. There are plenty of live tree's in my area.  Thank's for the safety tip.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Since, in your unusual situation, safety won't be such a dicey issue, it sounds like you
should count your blessings.  You have already done a "test" to see the quality of the wood. Once you added to your explanation, I am sure the other Forum members got quite a different impression of what you are up to.

As far as "why not to 'ring' trees and let them stand a while," all the safety answers given above do apply.  Also, the best time to saw any log is when it is fresh:  Fewer bugs, no sap-wood degrade, less abrasion (less wear on your blade), higher yield of good lumber, etc. are all reasons to cut freshly-felled trees.

You case is very unusual.  If the Red Oak was that well preserved, the White Oak will be even better preserved.  Go for it, but use tie-offs in case your prediction of where these are gonna go is not where they DO go.  ;)
8)

Phil L.

[Ga_Boy]

Terry,

From a material quality point of view, cut the tree now, mill and get it in to a kiln.  You get the best material if you drop the tree green, mill it and dry it ASAP.

A few months back I milled about 4 Mbf for a customer, this was a mix of Red and White Oak, this  stuff has been down for 3 years.  Milling dry material is for the birds, it is hard on the operator and equipment.  The quality of the products was less as well.  In this case the material was farm lumber, so quality was not as critical.

Just my toughts, bet of luck on what every you do.






Mark

[Terry]

Since I will be using it to build our house, I will stay away from dead timber.  Thanks

[DanG]

Just for the record, Terry, I think it was a DanG good question, too. 8)  You didn't know, so you asked, and you got some very good answers.  Not only did you learn something, but by asking a question you have educated a lot of other people.  You may have even saved someone's life!  We have a lot of inexperienced members, and who knows about all the guests that drift through here?  It doesn't hurt for some of us old timers to see this stuff again, too.  These things don't usually come up unless someone asks.

Keep the questions coming. ;)

[Frank_B]

And shows to go ya that it pays to read all the stuff, too.  I asked what I thought was the right question a while back (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=20280.0) but after reading this thread, I'm gonna leave that tree alone!  This monster (in my eyes anyway) is between 65 - 75 feet tall and loaded with widow makers.  Mother Nature will just have to bring it down in her own time.

Many sincere thanks!!
Frank

[Terry]

I can only pray that God grants me the wisdom to listen and learn until the day I die. To me, that's what makes it worth while. Dang, you are right. There are no dumb questions. On a lighter note, I got me a big old, fresh cut, Beech today. $100 question, whats it good for? Oh yea, I go pick up my saw mill tomorrow. YOO! HOO!   I ended up choosing the Norwood LM 2000. 1 extra section of track and the 23hp Vanguard. I will be building a platform for the saw to sit on. Can't wait!!!!! 8)

[DanG]

Good for you, Terry! 8) 8)  I think you'll be glad you picked the Norwood AND the 23hp engine.  That's a good, solid mill.

Now as for what to do with that Beech log?  Put it on that Norwood and have a blast with it! 8) 8) 8)

[Terry]

Thanks,Phil. If there is any chance of a tree hitting something it should'nt, I do put a rope in it. I really do use the motto: Safety First. It is so great to have you guy's sharing your knowledge and experience. Thank's   :P

[Terry]

I'll do just that. I think i'll practice on some pine's first---but really, is that beech good for something besides burning?

[Terry]

Dang? would it be ok if i talk to you over the phone? If so you could send me a #-- e-mail.

[DanG]

Sure.  PM me your number.  I got free long distance.

[Tom]

Don't they make tongue depressors out of beech?   That's a lot of sawing.  :D

[Don P]

Old wooden planes usually had beech bodies. dense hard wearing wood. I've made cabinets out of it too. Let us see what you make from yours, I've got a tree under tin waiting for a idea  .

[OneWithWood]

Beech is a good structural wood once it is dried.  It is used for drawer sides and backs, interior rails and support pieces in furniture.  I think it is a pretty wood and takes a stain well.  Before the advent of fiberglass a lot of gunstocks were made of beech and then stained walnut.
Tom, I think toothpicks and chopsticks are beech.  Tongue depressors are generally made from aspen, as are popsicle sticks, due to the lack of splintering.
Terry, mill it up and I am sure some ideas will come to you.  Mill some 8/4, 6/4 and 4/4.  It will be good practice if nothing else. 

[Tom]

That's even better.  If you saw it up into toothpicks, you can saw for a long time on one log. :D

Throckmorton

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

I milled some transition strips for laminate wood flooring out of beech.  (Couldn't take the box store prices on that little stuff:  $17.00 per 8ft. strip!)   Beech is hard as nails.  I had cut it about 10/4.  Air dried two years after being treated with my home borate mix.  Slow dried.  VEry slow.  When I cut it, no tension, cupping, etc.  NIce!

Talk about beautiful wood to make a European style carpenters work bench out of !
Yes Sirreee!   Cut vertical grain it has a nice peacock feather small spotted type of ray.  Not as nice as Sycamore, but pretty.

I just used a small piece to replace a part on a piano called a bridge cap.  Normally, it is Northern Hard Rock Maple, but this stuff seems just as hard.  Doesn't machine as cleanly as the Maple, so it was harder to carve to shape, but I think it will do the job!

In short, the lumber people say this:  "Not enough Beech to create a good market and not enough market to demand a lot of Beech!" 
So there ya' go!

Phil L.