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floor finish ideas?

Started by bman, September 27, 2006, 03:04:12 AM

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bman

Whew, coming down the home stretch on my TF home and am about ready to put the floor finish down on 1800 sq ft of long, wide doug fir plank flooring. I was all set to go with a traditional tongue oil finish for the sake of low sheen and repairability but am having second thoughts as time required to put down and dry is not on my side especially since the weather is cooling and I cant see running the wood stove or electric heaters with three gallons of turpintine evaporating out of the wood surface. Am wondering if any one has ideas to get that "old oil finish" look that is easly spot repairable and wont take two weeks to put down and cure. Was looking at Old Masters waterbased poly in a satin sheen. The product description claims it drys hard enough for use on floors. Any one try it? What are your favorite floor finishes for fir floors?

Jim_Rogers

If this wood is truly kiln dried you could use a poly, but if it isn't, I wouldn't.
The wood needs to breath in order for the water to evaporate. If you use a poly you'll seal the water in and force it to evaporate through the sides and bottom (if possible), and this could be bad.
You should consult a local floor finisher in your area. He knows your environment and probably the woods being used.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

beenthere

I've never used it for flooring (and don't think I would) but have used many gallons of Watco Danish Oil for all my woodwork finish, sans floor, and it would be 'walkable' in a day or so. Probably not polymerized for a couple weeks, but walkable.

But, until it dries, why put anything on? Either way (oil finish or no), you will get about the same amount of dirt worked into the wood from house traffic. So I'd think just laying it, letting it dry with the normal heat in the house, and then put on your finish of choice.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

HARLEYRIDER

If you are that strapped for time, use a quick drying stain (natural, golden oak, or what ever flavor you like)  like duraseal Quikcoat, or Bona's quick dry stain,....to get that oil based look. then use a good 2 part water based poly like bona traffic, duraseal Xterra, or basic's Street shoe....are amoung the best WB.
I'd use a good oil modified urethane...

Pm me if you cant find what your looking for....I'll point you in the right direction.
Greenwoods Timberworks

bman

To clarify, the floor is down and sanded ready to finish, its been sitting under two layers of protective paper for some time as the interior framing was being completed. The floor guy who looked at the sanding portion said the MC was about as low as I was going to get it for all the factors for my project. Harley, thanks for the tips, I will do some googleing on those items. What is the repair factor like for these finishes ,say on a high traffic area where you want to spruce up from the dogs running back and forth?

Jim_Rogers

Great tips all, this is what this forum is all about......
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

scsmith42

bman,

I've got heart pine floors in my house that were milled from 140 year old timbers that came out of a textile mill.

I am not an expert in this area and cannot speak to the other choices offered, but I do have two comments.  First, whatever you use, spend the extra bucks for "non-yellowing".  When we put down the pine, we kept a section of oak upstars that we didn't refinish, but we refinished the oak that was on the staircase.  The oak was installed in 1990, and did not have a non-yellowing finish put on.

What  a difference between the refinished stairs and the non-refinished loft!  The stairs are vibrant and colorful, and the loft oak is a washed out yellow after 15 years.

Some of the local folks swear by a type of poly that they call "Moisture Cure" (which is available in satin and non-yellowing).  It is reputedly one of the more durable poly's available and continues to harden over time.

Good luck with your project.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Sprucegum

Not a lot of advice here, but I have noticed that water-based polys show dog tracks rather quickly and the oil-based are not imune to them either.

Train your dogs to stay off the hardwood floors  ;D  ???  ;D

HARLEYRIDER

If youd like to read a ton of discussion and arguements over what finish is better than the next, go to floormasters dot com and click "shop talk" . Touch up with WB is not bad, but it is best to recoat the entire hallway or the entire kitchen. Most of the (more expensive)2 part WB  are non yellowing made with allaphatic resins, and the cheaper on part WB(aromatic resins) will yellow badly. I prefer duraseal products, but have used most of them. you cant go wrong with their QuickCoat stains. and since their sister company is minwax, duraseal has the same colors as minwax....but Quickcoat dries in 3 hours.
Greenwoods Timberworks

Thehardway

Check this out.  Have not personally used it  but looks like it should meet your needs.

http://www.vtpf.com/finishes.html
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Steven A.

I have Bonakemi "Traffic" on ash and cherry floors in my home and it looks as good 4 years later as the day I put it down. I will use it again in my next home. I highly recommend it.

Link to Bonakemi (pdf)

bman

Thanks to all, lot of good products to look at that I didnt even know existed. Am really interested in the dura seal products, will call around and see if their is someone who retails in my area (Salem OR) bman

HARLEYRIDER

It all comes down to ....you get what you pay for.....
I'm pretty shure you can buy from floorstyles dot com. Traffic runs $85-90/gallon
Greenwoods Timberworks

srt

bman,  Here's my take on floor finishes.  I'm a cabinetmaker by trade, and I finish just about everything I build.  When I laid our cherry floor, I asked the flooring guys that seem to work on the same jobs as me what they recommended.  Without hesitation, they recommended Bonakemi's "traffic".  I've seen them use this for years, and they swear by it.  Since I do a bit of finishing, I've noticed that any water based product i have used does not give an acceptable "warmth" over the stains I use (ML Campbell and the regular minwax oil based stains generally).  We always lay down a thin coat of shellac (dewaxed) over the stain, then the warmth will appear even if using waterbased top coats.  To quote an architech friend of mine about the look of water based finishes  "that s**t spans air".  The shellac also provides another barrier between the wood and the water, to help minimize grain raising.  Laying your first coat of waterbased finish a little thin will also help minimize the grain raising - less water there to soak in, and after it dries, another protective layer is added to the wood to prevent the next layer from raising the grain.

Here's what I did for my floor.  After going through the grits on the rented drum and orbital sander I ran over the floor with my 6" orbital sander at 150 grit, changing paper often (most people would skip this step, that's the anal-retentive cabinetmaker coming out in me).  Then, I laid down a thinned  coat of thinned dewaxed shellac with a little transtints dye added to taste.  When I say thinned, I mean about half the strength it comes out of the can, ending up with about a 1 1/2 pound cut of shellac.  Scuff sanded, and laid down another coat.  Put half a dollop of turpentine in the shellac, to help it maintain a wet edge.  scuff sanded and vacuumed/tacked.  Then I laid down two coats of traffic, scuff sanding vac and tack between coats.  That was a mess, not because of the product, but because I'm not skilled at "mopping on" a finish.  I'm ok with a spray gun, a brush, or a rag, but the mop wasn't comfoftable for me. 

Here's what I've found.  The finish looked very nice.  The shellac with a hint of dye stain warmed the floors nicely.  Traffic seems to be a nice hard finish.  I'm used to cherry being hard as a cabinet wood, but it's surprisingly soft as a floor, even with all heart wood, it dents pretty easily.  Where our two beagles have gotten a little carried away, they've scratched the floor and the scratches are "whiteish"  I think this shows more than scratches in oil based poly I've used before, which don't tend to be highlighted by a white line.  We've been using the floor for two months now, and I'm going to have to add another coat probably next year.  The mfgr recommends three coats for very high wear areas.   If you save a little bit of the catalyst and finish for scratches, be sure to get all the air out of the catalyst container - mine set up on me when I just left a little in the bottle. 

Here's what I'd like to try sometime.  Shellac is my most favorite finish.  It's gorgeous.  It's reapirable even if it's 100 years old - the new coat melts into the old coat!  It's cheap. It can be had in many shades from clear to deep red-brown.  It can be tinted to any color under the rainbow with transtint dyes.  It dries very fast.  They now make a deglosser so it isin't so shiny.  I read years ago that they used to use shellac on floors.  I know they used it on furniture, and I still do, whenever the customer will go for it.  It's not very good with water, and terrible with alcohol (the solvent you thin it with in the first place).  However, an undetectable repair can be done in a matter of minutes with some fresh shellac and maybe a bit of dye stain to match the tone.  Some day, I'm going to try a floor with shellac as the finish.  Be sure to use fresh shellac - best to mix if up yourself from flakes. 

Hope this helps, and doesn't just add more confusion!

Raphael

Interesting idea a little to formal for us...  I'm trying to picture shellac on cypress and pine.  ;D

... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Thehardway

My Dad used to threaten me that if I didn't behave he would "give me a good shellacking" so I have never been overly fond of that finish.  ;D
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

HARLEYRIDER

There is a fairly new shellac product (out 4 years ago) made by new parks (also known as zinsser) ....that I have used alot of. its called universal sealer. its a 2 pound cut dewaxed shellac that works great as a sealer, and to bring up the oil color under WB. apply it, wait 30 min, and hotcoat WB over it. dont abrade the shellac sealer.
  I was going to bring it up, but fgured it would confuse  people too much...and its hard to use. 

shellac has its place in wood floors again
Greenwoods Timberworks

bman

Hey SRT! thanks for the input. I've been gone a while and finaly got to check back. Your comments on shellac got me thinking; I had discarded shellac early on because of its inherant "filmy/glossy" look but am remebering a very old gun stock I refinished some years back on a antique Parker Brothers shotgun. I remember learning to use a "french polish" technique that laid on a super thinned down layer of shellac followed by additional applications until the desired effect was obtained. I'm not real fond of much anything "french" but that gave the gun stock a super elegant finish. Wonder if you can get an oil looking finish using the deglosser you mentioned? Can you give me some product names to research? Thnx bman

srt

Bman,  I get my shellac, dye and some other stuff from homesteadfinishing.com .  I can vouch for their shellac and the dyes.  I haven't tried the shellac flat yet, so I can't say.  However, the site is run by a family, not a large corporation, and they'll talk with you.  They know, do and teach finishing.  The stuff that zinzer sells now is in my opinion a good reasonable way to get light  shellac locally without wax.  Another way to dewax (mostly) is just to pour the waxy stuff off a can that's not been stirred recently.  Cooling it before pouring will help with the separation.  I'm not even sure you need to use dewaxed.  I have a good friend who is well resepcted in the refinishing business of fine antiques, and he says dewaxed is a bunch of bull.  Maybe, but it's not that much more cost.  Redoing a finish that didn't work out- now that's expensive.  Take care,  SRT

Joel Eisner

I just used Hard Wax Oil on my SYP floors.  We have two coats on and it looks great.  It drys fast but is expensive.  We will probably doo the floor the in the main room once things calm down a bit.

Joel

The saga of our timberframe experience continues at boothemountain.blogspot.com.

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