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Sawed my first real boards. Was good and bad.

Started by Modat22, September 18, 2006, 09:34:02 AM

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Modat22

After making my blade guards a bit better, installing dogs, a clamp leveling the bunks and fixing a problematic fuel pump I finally sawed some good boards.


I had a friend bring a 12ft lond cedar over, it wasn't very big at 14 inches but it sawed it great. Straight uniform thickness that varied by 1/100 of an inch (spot checked with a caliber every 10 or so inches both sides)


Looked to me like it was cutting good.


Afterward I wanted to cut something else because the cedar went so well so fast, approx 30 minutes (took longer because I was feeling it out) and cut down a 20 to 24 inch hickory. and thats where my problems began.


first 2 squaring cuts went well enough, I had some problems with sawdust getting in my guides (I have to modify them a bit to allow clearing). 3RD cut we saw sparks and the blade dove hard. I couldn't find metal but I assume I hit a rock or something. I checked the blade and didn't see anything wrong with it and continued cutting.

The blade wanted to dive quite a bit after that so I assume the blade set is messed up.



I'm having trouble getting proper tension on the 1.5 x .45 munk blade and I'm thinking about going to a WM 1.25 x .42 (I think). I believe my saw can tension these alright acording to a friends calculation.

Anyway thats it so far, I have to order some blades.


dogs installed.


I took a pump sprayer wand and attached a cheapo freon recharge valve to it for water regulation. Works great all the way down to about 3 drops every few seconds.
remember man that thy are dust.

getoverit

Hickory is one of the toughest woods to cut. The wood it's self is hard as a rock and the knots are even harder. It sounds to me like you hosed the set in the blade with something also, possibly a rock or metal or maybe even a hard knot. 

The blades you will need for Cedar and Hickory are horses of different colors. Sounds like the blade you had was fine for soft woods, but not a hardwood blade. Talk to your supplier and get the right blade for the wood you are cutting and you should be just fine.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Modat22

When I ordered the munkforsager I asked for a blade for cedar and oak. I didn't think about hickory. I'll need to chat with the blade sellers a bit more before I order anymore.

Thanks, that did make me feel better.

remember man that thy are dust.

Tom

You should check your hickory boards for metal very closely.  Losing a blade to a nail isn't nearly as frustrating as losing a new Planer blade later.  You might have several boards with pieces of the nail (or whatever) in it.

Find the board where the cut first went bad.  By locating the streaks the damaged blade made in the surface, you will be able to pinpoint the exact instance of impact.  Nails are not necessarily in the middle of the board where you can see them.  They might be in, or just under, the bark edge.  This makes them hard to see but just as lethal.

Yes, it might have been a rock.  They can bend a tooth and not leave much of a trail.  If it was metal, you will find a little curl of metal welded to the face of the tooth or teeth that passed through the object.  Sometimes you can flick this off with a screwdriver, knife, file or something like that, and still get some more use from the blade.


Modat22

After I we saw sparks I shut her down and disected the tree at the cut looking for the cause and didn't find anything. The teeth showed no knicks but I'm sure there are a few but I couldn't see them.

There was a little mud on the bark where the sparks occured though.

My saw flew thru the cedar though.

Sam
remember man that thy are dust.

Modat22

well I ordered a couple woodmizer 1.25" x .45 9 degree blades today I felt silly just ordering 2 but I don't know how they are going to work on my mill.

My munk blade seems to be alright, I now believe the blade dove so hard in the hickory that it pulled halfway out of my guide and the backside sparked on my bearing wheel post. I can see a nice scratch line on the post end  ???

Now saying this I can't tell if the set is knocked out of whack or not.

I think I'll be buying a cooks guide retrofit this christmas for my mill. My guides aren't the easiest things to setup. Losen a bolt and it moves to much one way or the other, then it might shift a little when you tighten it etc. Gives me a megrain... I would make some better guides but frankly I'm sick of fabricating   ;D

I did see one thing on a mill recently that I may have to copy. There was a Woodmizer with a little finger that pushed the board toward you after a cut that looked real handy. Once I get the power feed on the saw this will be an add on. 8)

remember man that thy are dust.

jrokusek

Quote from: Modat22 on September 19, 2006, 10:21:22 AM
.............My guides aren't the easiest things to setup. Losen a bolt and it moves to much one way or the other, then it might shift a little when you tighten it etc. Gives me a megrain... I would make some better guides but frankly I'm sick of fabricating   ;D.....................

Glad to see I'm not the only one with this problem!   :D  My dad watched me fidget with mine for quite a while before I had them right.  He just shook his head and told me I better just get the log "hooked down and cut it from top to bottom so at least we get some flat boards." 

slowzuki

Modat your experiences sound similar to mine for getting started.  Don't worry, you'll get most of your problems worked out I think.

Modat22

Thanks for the posts, I'll get it worked out eventually. Now I'm trying to plan a big building on my property so I can generate a material list. I recon I'll be bugging jim a little  ;)
remember man that thy are dust.

customsawyer

Don't feel to bad as we all have had a learning curve on hickory. I have seen some logs that have knots and stress in them to the point that it don't matter what you do it won't cut right. But it will have you checking everything on your mill from the blade to the rollers, even the bed rails. Some logs were made for fire wood. ;D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

mike_van

I gotta agree with customsawyer on that one - I think we all cut some junk when we first get going, logs that would be better in the firewood pile.  The one you have on the deck with the big branch on the side [i'm guessing is the hickory] is in my opinion, firewood.  One saying is " above the first major crotch is firewood" Well, sometimes below it is too.  You've come a long way with it modat,  there's light at the end of the tunnel -  8)  Get everything tweaked just right, you can cut good logs and have it come out just like that cedar.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Faron

Modat, I couldn't cut hickory to do any good until I got a debarker on my Woodmizer.  A little bit of dirt is plenty to dull a blade enough so it won't cut, especially in hickory.  You can use an ax to clean ahead of the blade, but I bet you'll get as tired of that as I did.   smiley_chop smiley_chop
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

Modat22

May not be cutting straight anymore. Tonight my dad came over to help me load a 26-28 inch redoak log using his front end loader on his tractor. He didn't hear or see my waving for him to stop and pushed my mill off its foundation.

It dropped 24 inches with that log sitting halfway on the bunks. I didn't see any damage but I won't know until I get it leveled back up and test the tracks. Sighting down the tracks it still looked AOK but I'm sweating over it.

I keep telling my dad to get a hearing aid but he keeps saying he hears fine....
remember man that thy are dust.

Dan_Shade

using a winch and ramps to parbuckle logs onto the saw is much better than loading them with a tractor.  if you do use a tractor, it's a good idea to have forks on it, and then roll it from the forks onto the saw.  jerky hydraulics causing a 1500lb log to drop can do a lot of damage.

I sure hope your saw is OK.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

PineNut

When loading logs with a FEL, I lower the forks until they just touch the bed. Then I roll the log onto the bed manually. (If I forgot to raise the stops, this gives me another chance.)  I don't like the idea of a log rolling on the mill without some control over it. For logs too heavy for me to pick up, I use ramps on the mill and roll the logs up with the FEL. If I didn't have hydraulics on the FEL that were in good condition, I would have to find some other method.

mike_van

modat, as soon as you can, saw some beams to replace those XX?/%@!!! cement blocks - I tried that route a long time ago, it stinks. I finally made 4  8x12's I think, and fastened the mill to them. No more slipping around. Also, just a suggestion, practice on some smaller logs 'till the bugs are out,  10 - 15 inch are great starters -
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Modat22

I told myself last night that I was going to get rid of those blocks. They where temporary anyway but I put it off and put it off.

I went back out 3 times in the dark last night and looked everything over and can't see any bends or broken welds. I'm thinking the ibeams I used and the track design with angle and box tubing kept everything from bending.

I never intended to do g-force testing though.

As a side note, I know I should be trying smaller logs but I just couldn't help myself. I really wanted to try a few things I read in the knowledge base yesterday and the only log I had down was a red oak I took down last winter and submerged in my pond.


This should be a warning to those using concrete blocks under a mill. Just don't do it.
remember man that thy are dust.

jkj

I usually load logs with forks on the tractor, but only lighter logs.   For heavier logs I use a much gentler way. 

I have a couple of 25" skidding tongs on short pieces of 3/8" chain.  These chains fasten to a couple of hooks welded on the top of the bucket.  If the log is too heavy for the FEL hydraulics (or if I have the forks mounted instead of the bucket), I use alternate hooks mounted low on the loader arms just behind where the bucket/forks attach.  This puts the weight closer to the lifting pivot points for greater weight capacity.

I'm usually working by myself, but with the tongs I can gently position and lower a large log exactly where I want it.  Can't get in a big hurry, though.

Caveat: blue skidding tongs are not approved for lifting.  Orange lifting tongs are, at twice the price.

JKJ
LT-15 for farm and fun

beenthere

When I visited Burlkraft, he used two web slings to carry the log. With the slings, a single person can attach the log in one trip off the tractor. A second person means not getting off the tractor  :)  His slings slip over the forks on his loader arms. Works well without the chance of slipping off and dropping the log onto the mill frame. Suspect two slings are cheaper than two tongs.  I'd have gone the tong route if hadn't seen how handy the straps were.

Another thought is to have a log deck near the mill to drop logs onto, that will be easy to roll the logs onto the mill. Then if the log is dropped, it isn't dropped onto the mill.  If it can happen, it will happen.  ::)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Gustavo

hi we are in argentina and we had  very strong woods to cut

woodmizer have special  bands to cut this wood

.045 inch  . with special teets ..

there are diferents   band   for diferents powers to

  you must sharp    the bands  each one to tree hours of job

    dont use only watter  you can mix    the watter with special   lubricant for  the bands

   i dont know the   advance velocity.. but it  must be  very slow

you can  visit the wood mizer dealer in argentina ..    this peolple have  good experiences in hards wood
thanks to the forum for share very value informations.
here i have got good information  and  over all   good friends

jpad_mi

Well? Is she OK?

It'd be a shame if something got tweaked, but the good news is we know you can fix it! Hopefully you haven't posted a report because you've been out sawing.
Jeff P. in Michigan

Modat22

I moved it last night to a more permanent spot. During the move while going over it I know the following.

Track is still straight  :)

frame is straight  :)

saw head is straight  :)

One guide bar is bent  :(

The adjustable connections to my electric lift chain are bent  :(

Not really a problem to repair though. I'm concerned about the lift gear motor, it took a really big shock but I didn't go thru hooking up the pwm controller last night. Going to wait till Sat or Sunday and do a complete relevel, fix the bent stuff and try it our on a log.

Keep your fingers crossed guys.
remember man that thy are dust.

getoverit

Quote from: Gustavo on September 21, 2006, 04:34:17 PM
hi we are in argentina and we had very strong woods to cut

woodmizer have special bands to cut this wood

.045 inch . with special teets ..



I guess them special teets explains why those woodmizer guys are so enthusiastic about their saws ??? ;;) :D :D

Welcome to the forum Gustavo!


Modat22:
Glad to hear the mill didnt suffer much damage ! Maybe a couple of quick repairs and you will be back to milling soon
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Modat22

got it moved and inspected everything. I did have a couple small problems but all is well now  8) We had 7 inches of rain in 24 hours and flooding all over the place so today was the only day I had to work. I did have several people close by call with trees down that I could have. So after getting my mill leveled and setup I started building a log arch to haul these trees one at a time. Hopefully it will be done before the weekend.


I really need a couple good winches.

Peace everyone.
remember man that thy are dust.

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