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Swingblade Woes

Started by Woodtik, September 18, 2006, 12:45:47 AM

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Woodtik

 I bought a new Peterson 8"ATS. What a mistake! Stripped threads on jockey wheel, gas tank hung down too low, couldn't doublecut full depth, dent in rail left slight warp in track, moter had too much oil, wouldn't start. Stopper bolts had to be raised to prevent accidental hitting of skids. Anti -vibe wheel heals the blade in the cut. They were great in the customer service dept, so most of these bugs got worked out. My next step is to add air toggle clamps to the center supports with switches at the winches 'cause I'm sick of adjusting these with every height change. Is it typical to only produce 100-350 BDFT a day in cants when working alone?
  I built a log deck and leveled it with a transit, so all my taper is off the top and right side. Moving the top of the log back and forth to follow the grain each side of the pith throws everything out of whack so any suggestions on this will be appreciated! I have the EZ Dogs and am going to search here for a better system, and from what I can see, help is to be found.   Swingers who have modified your mills, wudja do?
Thanks for lettin' me join up!
Dusty I am , to making dust I will return.

beenthere

Woodtik
Welcome to the forum.
What were using to saw lumber before the Peterson? 

Sounds like a used one - or not? 

What size logs are you sawing to get the board footage you sawed?  What were you getting with the previous saw you used?

I'd be interested in why you are taking all the taper off the two sides? 

Are you sawing for dimension lumber, or boards? 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

customsawyer

Welcome to the forum. Don't give up on her just yet. You have to remember that she might know more about how to saw then we do when we first get them. When I bought my first mill I put in some really frustrating days. But as time goes on you will learn new tricks that will make it easier.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

LOGDOG

Woodtik,

   Welcome to the forum. I've got a Peterson ASM 10" Mill. I've had it for about 2 years. My machine is quite a bit more automated than what you have but the basic principals are the same. Where are you at? Maybe I can help? Check out my photo gallery for pics of my mill and setup.

LOGDOG

getoverit

I have the 10" ATS Petereson and I would be happy to help get you started also. It is nothing for me to cut over 1200 Bdft a day with mine in dimensional lumber with one helper. By myself, I can do better than 800 bdft in dimensional lumber (1x6's, etc).

It sounds like you are turning the log after squaring the cut on the top??

Here is what I do... maybe it will help, assuming you have some way to pick up the logs (which it sounds like you do?)


First, cut three 4x4's about 10 to 12 ft long and lay them down on the ground parallel to the rails. Place one about 24" from the left hand rail, one right under the right hand rail, and one about 3' or so from the right hand rail but outside of the milling "box". They dont have to be level, but the closer to level they are, the easier it will be to mill  logs. 

Second, cut three 6x6's about 10 to 12 foot long and lay them on top of the 4x4's, but these you want to lay perpendicular to the rails and spread them out so that one is near each end of the log and one is near the center of the log. 
Adjust all of this so thatthe three 6x6's are all on the same plane or fairly close to it... doesnt have to be perfect. Once this is done, set up the mill over the log bunk you just created. You can adjust each corner of the mill to be on the same plane with the log bunks no matter if they are level or not.

Once this is done, use the mill to cut notches in the 6x6's to hold the logs in place.  This wy, all of the notches will be in line with each other. The way I did it was to start my firt notch about 6" from the left hand side of the 6x6, then cut about an inch deep. Move over 1/4" inch and make another cut, then move over another 1/4" and do it again and again until you have a notch cut approx 5" wide.  Move over about 6" and do the same thing, but make this notch about 4" wide.... then move over another 6" and make another notch... You end up with three notches about an inch deep and all are in line with the rails on the mill. Also, the log is now about 8 or 9 inches off of the ground, which helps your back out when picking up boards.

The way you center the pith with this system is to use a pry bar and some wedges to pick up the 6x6's on the little end of the log. Once you have it centered, place a couple of wedges under the middle 6x6 as well.

Then you start milling :)


Hope this helps!

PS: If your log is large enough that you cant move it, then you will need to adjust the rails on the mill so that your saw is in the same plane as the log in order to center the pith. From my experience, the log is usually laying close enough to mill it like it lays if it is that big, so none of the above statements are needed.

I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Part_Timer

Welcome to the forum.

I have an 8" ATS and have no problem turning that out in an hour depending on the size of the logs and the size of the cants.  I don't have much in the way of support equipment so an 8"x8" would slow me down some but not to much given the right setup.

Getting bf per hour out of a swinger is all about saving motion.

I'm the RC for IN and KY, so if your close and I can help let me know.

Tom

Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

getoverit

One other thing... with this system, you wont need log dogs as the notches will hold the logs in place if centered in the notches.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Welcome, Woodtik!

I can tell you are a fightin' the good fight!

I bought a Peterson 10" Winch Production Frame.  In fact, I had two of them for a short time.  It is not as deep-woods friendly at your's and Getoverit's ATS model, but I do like the single point depth-of-cut adjustment.

I follow your theory on the taper.   Over time I have decided not to adjust logs, but, rather, to cut what is there.  For example,  let's say you are cutting fine on the left.  The bark on the left is parallel with your tracks - all is well.    What to do about the flare or taper to your right?  My answer is one of two things:  You either waste it, or cut stickers.   I have decided not to repeatedly adjust my logs.  The time consumed is not worth it to me.

Instead of using three bunks, I tend to use only two most of the time - two 8x10's with square notches.   I set one bunk 2" to 3" lower than the other to account for taper in logs.  That is usually close enough.  Seldom do I baby them much.  I keep the logs grouped with the butt end toward that lower bunk end of the mill. If I do see that a log has a shape requiring tampering with a bunk, I lever up (like GetOverIt) and add a shim under the appropriate culprit.  If a log begins to sag during sawing, I may kick a large wedge under the middle, but often the trick of leaving the standing edge on the right is enough to stiffen the remaining scrap.

Remember the great advantage you have:   

You can decide at any time to cut vertically deep, taking your boards that way at the drop of a hat.  In other words, you can flat saw off the top of the log, then deep cut vertically to take flat sawn boards off the side.   You can even flat saw the top, then do deep vertical slices on top of the log, then slip under them all horizontally to cut all those boards free.  You can see a large knot and decide to cut stickers in that area, before resuming normal sawing, etc. This flexibility is where the swing blade design excels. 

Mess with your mind and flip that blade.  Fiddle with the log less. 

To echo CustomSawyer, nothin' teaches sawin' the way sawin' more logs will teach ya! 

You're going to love it!   (Especially with cooler weather on the way!)

Phil L.

Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Captain

Hold on Larry, help is on the way.   :)

Did that slabber arrive OK?? (finally) 

Captain

Woodtik

Thanks for the response fellas!
getoverit- I can see how your notched 6bys system works on differing diameters. I should revisit this approach. 
I found your post concerning those 12V winches-very interesting. After I perform those mods, I might get close to those figures in time.

beenthere- In the past, I used an Alaskan to slab logs, lining up with the pith. Now so far I'm cutting softwood cants meant for a resaw, not requiring parallel grain along the edge. Having the rails level with my makeshift deck, has kept me in the game. I've been sawing mostly 12" tops 8-20', then cedar butts with the heart rotted tapering from 4'to 2', thus the switching back and forth of the top.
Phil L. - I like your idea on rectangular bunks, roll one over to adjust for taper. So simple a woodtik could use it.

You all have a great attitude, thanks for the boost!
Yesterday I cut some curly Redwood destined to be... fencing. It will be the nicest fence for miles.   
By the way, Peterson's service is pretty darned good, just to emphasize my earlier statement. They sent me those EZ Dogs for my trouble. Thanks again!
Dusty I am , to making dust I will return.

getoverit

Woodtik,

Welcome to the forum and to the world of sawmilling !

Learning to use ANY sawmill is a learning curve. I have both a Peterson swingmill AND a hydraulic bandmill. They are completely different in the way that logs are milled on each and there was a learning curve on each one.

Peterson has bent over backwards to help me when I need it, even if it is just to answer a dumb question :D I'm sure they will do the same for you also and from the sounds of it they already have done everything they can to help you get started. If there is any way to get with another swingmill owner and let them show you the tricks of the trade, it will save you TONS of time and headaches. I dont know where you live, but I would be more than happy to spend a day with you to help you get started and teach you what I know about the swingmill.

I know it is hard to keep from getting frustrated sometimes, but just know that you have quite a number of happy Peterson swingmill customers on this forum that will be happy to help you if you let us know where you are running into problems. We have all faced some issues from time to time.

Just let us know where we can help!

Ken
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Hello again, WoodTik!

I have to admit...

If I had many of those severly tapered Cedar butts, I would have to come up
with a flip or slip-into-place means to accommodate that much difference in dia.

My farm jack solves many such problems:

This is what I did on some Red Cedars I cut two months ago.

1.  Jack up the low end
2.  Slide an aux. bunk on top of normal bunk on low end
3.  Wedges to firm up that end
Etc. 
(If I had wanted to fiddle longer, I would have cut a notched aux. bunk.)

You could even build a simple cradle to slide under that low end.  Such would be
lighter than heaving around massive timbers.  You could fine tune the height by
placing shims between this cradle and the normal bunk.(I like either flat shims or
complementary wedges used in pairs.   Flat shims don't tend to vibrate out of
place as readily as do wedges.)
How far to take your effort depends on how often you get highly flared or drastically tapered butt cuts.

Of course, with the ATS, you can deliberately lower one one of the mill frame.
Come on push that baby up that hill. We all need exercise!


Well, got a couple pianos to go tune.

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Burlkraft

Hey Woodtik,

Hang in there you'll get her....If I can do it so can you ;D ;D ;D

Of course I have dun gradiated the 6th grade :D :D :D

You have gotten some great help here...isn't this place amazin' ??? ??? ???
Why not just 1 pain free day?

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