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Cut my stairway this weekend...

Started by hawby, January 05, 2003, 05:59:30 PM

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hawby

This was a weekend that reminded me of why I bought my mill. I sawed some white oak into 8/4 and 12/4 for making a stairway into our new basement. (Ya know 3" x 14" x 14' of oak is about all three people can lift.)

I have a question for all you experts in building. I would like to rout my siderails (the tech term slips me, I is tired) for the 8/4 steps to ride on. I am thinking that 1" deep will suffice. I plan on running a couple of lengths of threaded rod from siderail to siderail to give me some manner of keeping things real tight as it drys down over time.

I stickered all of the planks in the basement which is heated, but runs 50° or so. I plan on putting a box fan down there to assist, but did not want to start it going to fast on moisture loss. I also can raise the temp down there as I get closer to using it.My question is this:

Can I dry it down enough in this manner to use for interior use, or do I really need to get it to a kiln? I plan on checking the width of the steps periodically to see when they stabilize at a constant width.

This wood is real p'rty and I don't want to muck this up. Any advice is appreciated. One thing I know for sure is I have to build a fairly hefty support structure just to hold itself up. It is going to be 42" wide and open stairs (no kickboard).

Thanks for your assistance.

klh
Hawby

Missin' loggin', but luvin' the steady check...

Don P

Must be stair day! I planed and brought in my red oak today and just scooted the sofa forward so I could sticker it to finish equalizing. Mines just conventional so I went with 4/4...wishing I had sawed that tree up into 5/4 but it'll work.

Here's a detail I had on the shelf. Got a pic or three of one I did a few years ago, I'll see if I can dig em up.


All the wood in my house has been dried in the mill or barn then brought to the house to finish. The wood I brought up today reads 16% and the house is bottomed out at 8%... about the lowest it goes throughout the year. I'll wait to work the wood (if the ladies will let me) till its within a couple of points of that. I jumped the gun planing it now but am trying to push it along. Usually I wait with any working till its reached equilibrium.

Frank_Pender

Hawby, if nothing else make sure you place a layer or two of black 4 mil plastic down before you place and sticker the wood.   The wood will wick water from the concrete floor.  Better yet, make sure you have a good 4" inches in space between the floor and the first layer of board you are drying.    I would also bet there is more moisture in you basement than any other part of your home.  A small home type dehumidifier would not be a bad idea, if I were you.  The wood alone will create moisture as it is drying and where are you planning to send that moisture? I would strongly suggest that you use stickers that are 1" x 1" and no more that 18" apart.  If possible, place some extra heavy weights of some sort on top of the stickered pile.   These are the "steps" I would take in drying your stepping. ;D  The best of luck in your project.
Frank Pender

chet

Hawby,  I air dry all my wood outdoors first to between 20% & 15%, then finish it in the basement to around 6 or 8%. Starting it in the basement totally green you are going to have a very difficult time not having a mold problem.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Don P

 I usually start the stack on rows of blocks with stickers on top. I also have a digital thermometer/hygrometer (Lowes $20) nearby and use it in conjunction with an equilibrium moisture chart to know what the emc of the house is at...then meter the wood to see if its in range yet or not.




 A trick to see if the slab has a moisture problem is to tape a piece of clear plastic on it overnight and then check for condensation under the plastic the next morning.

Here's a pic I had of the jig I made to rout the notches on one set. I call it a "nest jig" since the plunge router is nested inside of the hole cut in the plywood. A 2x4 is screwed at the correct angle on the underside and then you just slide it into place, clamp and rout.

This set was getting t&g applied on the underside of the stringers so I could slide the treads in from the back. These can be enclosed mortises if its going to show on both sides.

Modified 1/05/03...Didn't want to jump over Frank's question to Norm so I backtracked some other pics to here, hope y'all don't mind.

The first set is has the treads inserted from the front, like the drawn detail I posted earlier. The second set is slid in from the backside with risers of 3/4 board slid up into a groove routed into the underside of the treads.



This set has notched stringers with the treads plopped on top




Norm

I made our staircase out of steel and 2" treads made of red oak and walnut. I ran out of dried stuff for the last 7 treads and used some white oak that was just air dried. About 7 months later all the white oak has warped, the rest has stayed stable. If your wood is green off the mill it will take quite a while to dry in the basement. Using a fan will help also I use a small oscillating one. I brought some 2" red oak that was air dried to 20% into our basement this fall and checked it a week ago and it read 9.5%.
 

Frank_Pender

Nice looking stairs, Norm.  Did you do your own welding for the framework?
Frank Pender

Norm

Thanks Frank, yes I did that's why you'll never see any close ups of the metal work :D Most of it is bolted together so that we could assemble it on site. Was a learning experience to say the least.

hawby

Thanks for the tips so far.... I really like the pics, kinda gives me an idea of where I am headed.

I shoulda been more specific on the basement environment.It is a wood foundation, wood floor. Vapor barrior on crushed stone, 6 inches of fiberglass insulation, 3/4" of plywood for flooring.

I will be foaming the side walls in February (Hurray for bonus checks). I would have fiberglassed, but the studs are 2x8s on 12"centers. Can't get 12" batts. Besides the foam will be superior and I am hoping I can heat it with a match :D

I do have a dehumidifier, but did not want to hit the moisture loss too quickly. I plan on starting a box fan on it this weekend and will turn on the dehumidifier as well.

I do have a question though. Do I need to weight down the 8/4 and 12/4 planks? It just seems like there would be lots of weight from having them stickered on top of each other.

I am going to bring home a calibrated humidity meter from work. ( I calibrate many every year, 200-300 or so) I do need to purchase a wood moisture meter though. ( I am just getting started at this "wood" thing and do I enjoy it!!!!)

Finding this forum has been one of the best presents of 2002!

Thanks agian guys , keep the advice coming!
Hawby

Missin' loggin', but luvin' the steady check...

Tom

Hawby,
The best thing you can do for it is the fan.  If it were me I would have turned the fan on right away.  It's very hard to get enough circulation to clear the wet air out of the layers of wood and stickers.(especially if you stacked it near a wall)

The dehumidier will probably not take enough water out of the air to hurt the wood but will at least give the air a chance to absorb some.

I seldom stack weight on wood because it takes so much to do any good.  If you are weighting 4/4 down then stacking 8/4 on top is the best thing to do.  I've seen cupped oak lift a whole stack of wood so if its of a mind to move.....you're not going to stop it. :D

hawby

Don P,

The first set of stairs is the style that I had in my mind's eye. How high are the risers? Well that is a silly question huh? No risers. How high are your steps? Isn't the average step height around 8" or so? How wide are the steps themselves?

I like the openess of that style. Looks great.

klh
Hawby

Missin' loggin', but luvin' the steady check...

Don P

A "perfect" stair is supposedly a 7" rise and a 11" run. An old rule of thumb is to add 2 rises and one run and the perfect sum would be 25. DanG arch-i-teks almost never give you that though :D. If memory serves that set was 7-5/8 rise with 10" treads overlapping about an inch...7-5/8 + 7-5/8 + 9= 24-1/4...a wider tread would have been better but you don't see the wall at the base that was crowding the landing. (DanG arch-i-teks, oh I might have already said that :D)

My codebook...and it varies, says no more than an 8-1/4" rise, no less than a 9" tread length vertically measured from nose down to nose below (you can't make a ladder) No more than 1-1/2" projection of a nose over the tread below. All treads must be within 3/8 of each other..no oddballs. Minimum 6'8"headroom as you go under the hole.
Handrails between 30-38" measured vertically from the nosing, no wider than 2-5/8 wide at the grip, at least 1-1/2" off the wall if applicable. Pickets should not be more than 4" apart at the nearest point between members. The triangle formed by the tread and a bottom rail should stop a 6" sphere :P


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