Diesel Fuel Prices to Stay Up

[Ga_Boy]

News article on the price of Diesel fuel and why it is not expected to drop anytime soon.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2006-09-05-diesel-usat_x.htm

[sprucebunny]

Ya. And to add insult to injury, older deisel vehicles need to have a lubricity agent added to each tank :

[DanG]

My connection is so crappy I couldn't open the link.  Somebody want to 'splain?

I saw a sign posted on a diesel pump the other day, saying not to use that fuel in 2007 or later vehicles. ???

[Frank_Pender]

Yep, around here is is up to $3.39 and gallone and regualr gas is down to $2.99. >:(

[caryr]

And just to keep things fair  >:(, home heating oil which is still the original high sulfur formulation has started to tracked right along with the more processed low sulfur fuel the last few years. I'm betting it will continue to track the new even more expensive to produce lower sulfur fuel as well. A month or so ago the untaxed low sulfur and untaxed original were almost the same price. For those that don't remember, the extra cost of producing the low sulfur fuel was the oil companies main excuse for why diesel went from always significantly below regular to over premium a couple of decades ago. It was at least  a $0.50 per gallon change. People have some control over the fuel they use for transportation, but most people who use home heating oil don't have much choice. In Oregon that group also includes all off road diesel vehicles (farmers, loggers, construction, etc.). I don't mind paying my fair share, what upsets me is when I have to pay the same for a cheaper product!

[Reddog]

Ya. And to add insult to injury, older deisel vehicles need to have a lubricity agent added to each tank :

Sprucebunny, Who told you this?
The same rumor started on the first change from High sulf. to low. I do not now of any issues with the older pumps failing on the first change. So I am not concerned with this next change to ultra low. My .02

[VA-Sawyer]

Reddog,
Sprucebunny isn't spreading gossip, I have seen it stated in two different articles. One was about the new engine Ford is coming out with to replace the 6.0 Powerstroke. They said the older 7.3's will need the additive. I also saw it on an industrial equipment site.

MetalSpinner,
  I am under the impression that we aren't supposed to copy/past stuff here due to copyrite rules. At least add proper credits so one of the admins don't move this thread.

VA-Sawyer

[UNCLEBUCK]

My 96 ford has the 7.3  so this is interesting .  I wonder when it gets 40 below zero and I start blending #1 and #2 and a cup of power service and then dump in this new additive for lubricating the pump I bet I am going to look really cool going across the u.p. , I wont have to worry about running over snowsnakes , I will gas em to death  8)

I know when I blend fuel the motor runs just a tad warmer . 

Old smokey will burn Dang near anything  :D

[amberwood]

Interesting discussion on diesel composition.
In AUS we only have low suphur..VERY low. 0.1%. I have not heard of any probs with road use at these percentages BUT my real job is purchasing for a shipping company and we go thru LOTS of MGO. (Marine Gas Oil, basically road diesel). We have had some issues with premature liner wear on main engines due to a lack of suphur acting as a lubricant, but only on a specific series of engines. The old ones dont care(can even run on preheated Heavy Fuel Oil, sort of like heating oil) and the newer ones seem to be ok as long as the correct grade of lubricating oil is used. It seems to be just a few built around 2000 that have the problem regardless of oil.

Coolant/cyl head temps and loading also has a huge impact on the wear rate. They like to be HOT and loaded.

Hang on to your wallet. currently costs approx USD$750 per metric tonne..53 ships, 10-40 tonnes per day...per ship.

Serious toys at 5000-25000 hp

http://www.farstad.no/farsovereign

Slightly off topic..

DTR

[Michigan Mike]

May be just showing off my ignorance here but I heard that a biodeisel mix would  inclrease the lubricty?

[UNCLEBUCK]

I dont know anything about that Mich Mike but last year when diesel made the switch to bio diesel here in Minnesota it lasted 3 weeks before it got pulled as trucking companies were screaming of gelling

[Reddog]

Reddog,
Sprucebunny isn't spreading gossip, I have seen it stated in two different articles. One was about the new engine Ford is coming out with to replace the 6.0 Powerstroke. They said the older 7.3's will need the additive. I also saw it on an industrial equipment site.

Sorry that was not how I ment it. All I am saying is we heard this all before. So be wary of the snake oil salesmen telling you, if you don't, bad things will happen.
Kubota and Cummins and Cat have not realeased any service docs yet that I know of. A few car makers are not even going to make 2007 oil burns.

[Don_Papenburg]

MM   
soy diesel does add lube  so no other is needed. 
UB 
soy diesel does gel at a lot higher temp than regular diesel.

[Dale Hatfield]

I run 2 diesel  dodge pickups. I have more money tied up in the fuel systems in thoses 2 trucks than  most make in a month.  They both get an additive at every fill up. That stuff cost me 80 bucks a gallon. but it goes a long way.
2 oz per 30 gallon.  I dont know if the new fuel will  be a problem , it was last go round. Figger it will be this time. But my trucks  are covered.
I can also tell you that . I talked with  the man that installed my fuel systems and he says look at this pile of injectors. I said how long ya been collecting  them .  He   said changed em all out this  past week. take it for what it is.

Dale

[Quartlow]

Makes me even more glad that couse and i collected almost 300 gallons of fryer oil after the fair this week 8)  8)

Got to stretch that diesel any way you can.

[OneWithWood]

All this is the reason I am building a processor and brewing biodiesel to heat my home, greenhouses and supply some fuel for equipment.  The gelling issue is real and one I need to overcome - probably by blending petro and biodiesel.

[Raphael]

  We've had problems with gelling ever since the first sulfur reduction!  I wonder how much worse this new formulation will be.  Walking the last 5 miles up the mountain at 1am gets real old fast.  I plan on adding a grease car kit so I can at least make it home on whatever is in the heated fuel system.
  Anyone know how naptha reacts in a compression fired engine?

[LOGDOG]

Diesel here in NW Louisiana is at $2.75 as of my last fill up. I saw regular unleaded at $2.51. That's considerably less than it has been. I'm planning on getting out of my big Ford diesel because of the mileage. I'm not using it to pull much weight so it's basically an expensive run around vehicle for carting tools and such.

We need to remember that markets respond to supply and demand. The more fuel we choose to use, the more likely the price is to increase. That's a constant that we can't escape. Where possible I'm changing everything over to electric and if I get another diesel vehicle I'll be buying a biodiesel production system. I was concerned about how the road tax is addressed when using biodiesel. I researched it and found an article that stated "each man,woman and child in a household can produce 1100 gallons of biodiesel for personal use and not be required to pay ANY road tax on it". So for my wife and I that's 2200 gallons per year at say an average of 20 mpg between a diesel truck and car = 44000 miles annually. At a cost of roughly 60 cents per gallon or less that's $1320.00 per year out of pocket as compared with $6050.00 per year at our current pump price of $2.75 per gallon. Looks to me like the payback on the biodiesel machine is relatively short on those grounds alone. Not to mention that you can apparently use it for household heating purposes as well.

For fun I plugged in the savings of $4730.00 per year into my financial calculator. That amount invested one time at the end of each year with a return of only 5% compounded annually for 10 years adds up to $70,173.00. 20 years of doing this puts $176,772 in your pocket with a 5% return. 30 years comes to $350,411.00. And that's just based on the amount of useage for my household. If you use more than that then the savings is that much more.

So the deal is, every time we decide to fuel up at the pump we put that money in "their" pocket. In fact, now that I've run the numbers again there's not a doubt in my mind that biodiesel is in my immediate future!

Food for thought ....

LOGDOG

[VA-Sawyer]

Amberwood,
Currently the law here limits sulphur to 500 parts per million ( 0.05% ) Starting on Oct 15 the new limit will be 15 parts per million. ( 0.0015% ) That is why the new stuff is called Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel.
VA-Sawyer

[customsawyer]

I have a small advantage in that I live in the south so gelling is not as much of a problem down here but I do use bio diesel in all of my equipment like farm tractors, sawmills, and backhoe. I have a local company that is making it and I go over there with my 500 gal tank and fill it up. The summer months is no trouble as it does very well down to 50 degrees F. I have run chicken and soybean both and haven't had any trouble as of yet I never changed any filters or anything like that I just filled up the tank and turned the key. It is a little different rideing the tractor pulling in the field and smelling chicken instead of diesel. ;D

[Reddog]

Here is some of the info I got on the ULSD.
I have talked to a few of the suppliers we use and they all had the same answer.

You should not need any further additization in the ULSD product.  The lubricity additive injected at the terminals should cover any requirements.

To manage this change the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005.

They did say to be aware of water pickup. This new fuel is easier for water to condese in. Also they were unsure of true cold weather jelling.

And the Big one.  Most of us have been running on it since July. :D

[Onthesauk]

Gassed the car up on the way home tonight and noticed that diesel was about 35 cents a gallon cheaper then regular.  First time I've seen that in awhile.

[maple flats]

I got both tonight. Diesel was $2.859 and reg gas was $2.649. Good ol New York, land of endless taxes.

[Mooseherder]

Diesel was 2.69 and Regular was 2.45 today in West Palm.