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what do you guys think?

Started by Travis, September 05, 2006, 08:19:30 PM

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Travis

hey guys,
I am not looking to get into logging for busness. I am looking to pull my own fire wood and make atv trails around the yard. I have a excavator now, but it's to big for my needs. I was thinking about trading it for a small to mid size skidder. But havn't had much luck with that. My dad thinks the idea is dumb, he says to use my four wheeler to pull out wood.  Would it be worth looking into a skidder, or just take the time with the four wheeler?

scsmith42

Travis, do you have need for any other mechanical devices other than just skidding logs?  If so, you might want to consider a mid-sized 4WD tractor with a loader.  With a winch on the back you can skid, and also have the benefit of forks, buckets, etc for other work.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

PineNut

I have a 4WD 48 hp tractor with FEL and a boom pole on the back. Also made a custom toolbox to hold a chain saw and added a trailer hitch to the boom pole so it is fairly well self contained for logging. This works quite well for me. This also gives me the capability for brush cutting and blade work which has been used extensively since Katrina.

thecfarm

Welcome to the forum Travis. I know of one guy that gets his wood out with a 4 wheeler.Uses a trailer and loads all of the wood on it 4 foot lenght.I use a 40hp 4WD with front end loader and a winch on the back.Just have to be careful and plan out your roads better.I use that tractor almost every day that I am not working for something around here.I feel this works better than a skidder for me.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Max sawdust

I too use a tractor with a logging winch.  My tractor is too small (24HP diesel) for productive logging but would be fine for firewood.  The real problem I have found is the narrow wheel base makes the tractor tippy when stacking at the landing.  I really need to plan and prepare my roads.  The trails make great walking paths, XC Skiing and ATV paths.

If you are considering using an ATV search this forum for logging arches.  They make moving larger logs with the ATV possible.

Max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

Travis

The land behind my house is up a mountain. My uncle logged it many years ago with a JD 440 and he did ok with it. I have been driving my fourwheeler around it to see what it's like  and there are parts where the land condition almost rolls the fourwheeler because of the short wheel base and length. I really just plan on pulling enough wood each year for my fire place. I also don't plan on digging into the mountain anymore. I have to fix the old log landing but I think my father is going to let me use his backhoe. I have't heard much on skidding with a tractor, execpt that they seem to be tippy. I would hate to roll down the mountain. Thank you everyone that is writing back so far. I look forward to talking to more of you soon. Travis.

Ron Scott

Be aware that harvesting trees on steep slopes is dangerous business and requires experience. Steep slopes will also limit the use of equipment and erosion often becomes a management concern.

~Ron

Travis

thats a good point. Its only steep in certian areas. I feel I could drive around without any problems. I want to be able to pull a "full" tree, and limb it in the landing. I will burn anything that is to big for our little chipper. A couple people that know the land said I would have to back a tractor up the hill. They said a small skidder would walk all over it. But what is the cost of keeping a skidder vers's a tractor? My Excavator is in the 75,000 lb class and has been really really good to me.

thecfarm

I do not twitch a whole tree without limbing it first.Really plows up the ground and makes a mess quick.I will haul out the tops after I cut all the logs out of it.This isn't too bad on the ground.Sometimes I have to stop and drop the top and try to get a big limb on top so it won't plow the ground up.Takes alot of power too if the trees have any size to them to haul them out in one piece.Also have to plan your roads out real good.They have to be straight,unless you want to bark up the trees on every cornor.I cut my limbs up every 2-3 feet.I take the limbs down to below a couple inches.I cut my brush up so that it lays on the ground.In a year I can drive over the brush if needed and have no damage to my tractor.If your land is that steep,according to some people,you may be better off with a skidder.But you still have to be careful with a skidder,these will roll over too.Lots of danger in the woods.Go over a stump on the high side and you can roll anything over.Give this alot of thought and time.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

UNCLEBUCK

Well atleast with a backhoe you can swing your weight on a sidehill , unpinch a chainsaw from a felled tree, place your hoe in a good spot when your bucking your log into chunks so you dont end up flattened , fill your loader with chunks and head for home or a dump truck . I love my backhoe even if it is old and worn out it makes it even more fun to drive . The muffler just fell off last week  and it sounds great  :D  .  I dont have fluid in the tires anymore , tire shop fella's say you dont need fluid in backhoe tires .  I miss having that fluid in those rear tires all the time , high and heavy loads especially, slippery conditions etc...  I will definately be putting fluid in again whenever I can afford new tires .

Good luck and be safe  :)
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Travis

I think im going to keep the back hoe out of the woods. It's an oldy too. I really just need it to finish the road and smooth out the landing. The bucket on the excavator is 48" so most of the rocks in the landing look small untill you get out of the machine. I think I will keep looking for an old JD 440 or something small that will handle the job. It can't hurt to have a skidder anyway.  :)

RSteiner

Hello Travis,

I live a couple of towns south of you and I am know what the hills in Stoddard look like.  A skidder may be the best machine for getting around in the woods but limits the things you can do with it.

As many have suggested a 4WD tractor with a winch and FEL would give you a machine that has many uses.  Since it soulnds like the amount of fire wood you need each year is small then the tractor route may be best.  Some tractors are better suited for uneven ground than others.  The wider the wheel base the better. 

There is one small skidder on the market made by some one in your area that may be just the ticket.  It is called the Collins workall. The designer lives in Nelson, NH.

I have a Kubota compact tractor with a Farmi winch that I use to gather my fire wood with.  It does okay on smooth going in the woods and the winch makes up for the places I can not drive.  If I can drive to within 150 feet of the tree 99% of the time that is close enough.

Another option is a small dozer with a winch.

Randy
Randy

solodan

I would just use the atv and a log arch.
check out Future Forestry

Scott

 Hi Travis. I would suggest you look at either a good stable 4x4 farm tractor or a small dozer. I would actually lean towards the dozer. They can usually be bought  cheap, are very stable, climb well, and compliment an excavator really nicely. If you do decide to go with the skidder make sure it has brakes. A lot of the oldies around here don't.
  What do you have for an excavator?

SwampDonkey

If your trying to regenerate some species such as white spruce, actually skidding wood along spaced trails is beneficial to establishing a new crop if harvesting is done in late summer/early fall in good seed years. You need mineral soil exposure for a good seed bed for white spruce. I can show you pictures of good regen after a thin veneer of soil is disturbed with a dozer blade. I have some sections of my plantations where black spruce were hand planted in the mean time white spruce seedlings became established on the disturbed soil in between. So I have two softwood species for the price of one.  8) 8) I also see spruce establishing on old skidder routes I sometimes walk. White spruce is not as shade tolerant as fir, so it needs all the help it can get. How many times have I heard, 'I wish all those fir trees were spruce' ? ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Travis

thank you guys for posting back. I'm still looking around. I have logged with a small dozer before, But the problem is they are easy to detrack and not so easy to retrack in the woods. There are a ton of rocks on my land. Thats why I don't take the excavator out there. As for what the excavator is. It's an 87 Hitichai UH-123. They say it's in the 75,000 lb class. It has 3000 hours on a new hino engine. It has a 48 inch bucket and a hyd thumb. For the year it is in great shape. all glass is there and not broke. Undercarrage is clean, body has one dent. The previous owner swung into  a tree.  It has been great to me. But like I said before its to big for my needs anymore. Talk to you guys soon.

beenthere

Travis
That was my conclusion after having a small dozer for woods work. A few times of working hard to get the tracks back in line, made going back to rubber tired 4wd tractor a better alternative. However, bulling around in thick underbrush with the crawler was more satisfying  :D, especially when most of it was prickly ash.
I'm not a heavy-duty logger by any stretch, but have some fairly steep woods terrain, and some decent size white and red oak. Twelve-foot logs are no problem with a 32HP JD 4wd, using the 3pt with logging tongs to lift one end of the log. Distance for skidding is less than 1/4 mile which can seem long, but moving around on rubber is better than tracks.
Having the loader on the tractor, easily switching to a bucket or forks, is flexibility that opens up countless options of other tasks to do with a 4wd rubber tired tractor. I have a mid-framed compact utility (JD4300) which I believe I would prefer over a larger frame size in the woods. Bigger just means harder to get around amongst the remaining stand of timber. But there are a lot of different options, which this is but one.

Here is a pic from my gallery of my present 'logging' tool.



Here is how I did it 40 years ago with an 8N Ford.


south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

getoverit

Nice set of tongs ya got on the new rig beenthere!

Where did you get them?
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

beenthere

goi
thanks
Bought tongs at a farm auction about 25+ years ago.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

PineNut

This is what I use to get the log to where i can load it. The tractor is a JD 5205 48hp with FEL. The wheel spacing is just over 6 feet so it can get in fairly tight places. After pulling the log out, I use the FEL to put it on a trailer. I don't have a debarker so I make an extra effort to keep the logs clean. By picking up one end I only have one small area of the log that drags the ground. Of course by picking it up like that, I have to be careful to keep the front end of the tractor on the ground. If pulling under difficult circumstances, I add a chain from the tongs to a point low on the frame of the boom pole.


Tom

One of the best places to hook the towing chain is from just above the round ring on the hook to the drawbar.

This is a point of safety we've discussed many times.  I'm sure glad you do it, and doubly glad that you brought it up.  It's good for new folks to be aware of it.  :)

Even if you are experienced and careful, the log can catch on a stump.  When the chain is attached to the tractor at a place higher than the rear axle, the tractor can flip over in a heartbeat with the operator not being able to respond to the clutch, throttle or gear box quick enough.  :P

PineNut

My previous post was one from file that showed the loading of a log. This is what I load them on if they are too large to pick up with the FEL.


Don K

PineNut, Where exactly do you call home in Lincoln County?    Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!

PineNut

Out from the big city of Bogue Chitto.

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