Sugestions for buying a used mill?

Greg Cook · August 28, 2006, 10:37:31 PM

I'm looking to buy a used mill, probably a WoodMizer. Is there anything in particular to watch for, something WM's have a problem with. I don't mind making a few repairs, just don't want to get burned. I'll mostly just saw for my own use around the farm.
I've also looked at the Lucas mill. Anybody who has operated both swingers and bandmills want to share your opinions? (I know y'all have opinions!) Thanks.

getoverit · August 28, 2006, 11:07:41 PM

I hae a Peterson 10" ATS swingmill AND a hydraulic bandmill. The Peterson mill is capable of doing most anything one could want with a mill, but in my opinion their forte' is in dimensional lumber. For the big logs, there is nothing better than a swingmill. In my opinion, Peterson is the industry leader of the swingers. You cant beat their sales team and then the support after the sale.

If you need to produce a great deal of wide lumber, the bandmill is my mill of choice.... at least for me. If I needed a great deal of 1x12's from a log, then the bandmill is the way to go. my bandmill is capable of producing 36" wide slabs if needed. Of course, a swingmill with a slabber attachment is another option for slabs too. I havent used a slabber, but I understand they do a fine job at it.

As a personal preference, if I had a great deal of small logs that I needed to mill, the bandmill would be the choice for that too. when I say small, I mean logs that are under 10" in diameter.

Either mill can and will produce nice looking and accurate dimensional lumber. Bandmills are limited on the size of a log they can mill. The swingers are the champ when it comes to those really big logs that nobody can even move. Swingers can get into those places (like someone's back yard) that you cant get to with a bandmill.

This is a debate that is like comparing aples to oranges though. It all deends on what *you* need from a mill and what kind of logs and lumber you plan on getting from that mill and how large or small the logs are and where the logs are in the first place.

getoverit · August 28, 2006, 11:11:33 PM

By the way, welcome to the forum Greg !

Stick around and you will learn a great deal about mills here. Be sure to post some pictures of the logs you plan on milling if you have the chance.

brdmkr · August 28, 2006, 11:24:31 PM

Hey Greg Welcome to the forum. I am a native Tennesseean myself! I have a Lucas 618. GOI did sum things up pretty well. Swingers excell at really big logs. The bigger the better. But, they I don't like cutting smaller logs (less than 12" on the small end) with it. It does turn out really accurate lumber and support has been excellent. If you get a chance, swing by Bailey's there in Jackson and I bet they'll let you run one ;). I think GOI has the best of both worlds. He has one of each.... So he can race 'em. ;D

beenthere · August 29, 2006, 12:07:28 AM

Greg
Welcome to the forum.
I've been around here for a few years, and I don't think there is anything about a WM mill that you need to be leary of. You can spend some time reading up on these mills, but you won't find any big problems with any. Most problems are learning the things that need to be addressed to saw logs, and these are things that one has to pay attention to regardless of the mill that is being used. Logs come in a variety of size, shape, hardness, and quality. They can have growth stresses, dirt in the bark, metal imbedded in them, and numerous other things that have to be considered while sawing.
Needless to say, there is a 'ton' or more of good information to be gleaned from the many members. Most are proud of the mills that they own and operate, and in addition, more information can be obtained from the mill sponsors listed on the left, of which WM is one of several.
Enjoy the ride. Pull up a stump and sit and talk.

solodan · August 29, 2006, 12:15:24 AM

Like I have said before, I wish I had all that dough that Ken has so I could have both a swinger and a bandmill. ;D I will add a band mill to my operation in the future for those small logs (less than 18" on the small end). Beenthere, brdmkr and GOI did sum it up pretty well. I think you need to sit down and think about what you need to mill alot of and how big your trees are. I would have been under gunned on my first log I milled with my Lucas if I would have bought a bandmill, but boy oh boy 16" to 18" logs can be had all day long here, but 50"+ logs out this way are not uncommon either. Also how much support equipment do you have, and what kind? and how bout hydraulics? I think you will find that most WM owners feel that the hydraulics were money well spent or even better yet, money they wish they would have spent. I think you will find that most of us around here, feel every type of mill is capable of cutting very nice lumber. Even chainsaw mills have their purpose, and mine finds its way out quite often. It just depends what you really need.

And by the way welcome to the Forum. 8)

ronwood · August 29, 2006, 09:41:19 AM

Greg,

I would agree with all the previous post made above. Each mill has it pros and cons. I have a LT40 hydraulic and for me it was money well spent. The hydraulic helps a lot in handling the larger logs and to me is alot safer when turning a large log on the mill. Working on the mill is not to bad. Support it very good. I would recommed that you look at a number of bandmills and swingmills to get a good idea of what is out there.

Ron

tomboysawyer · August 29, 2006, 10:21:01 AM

Quote from: solodan on August 29, 2006, 12:15:24 AM
and how bout hydraulics? I think you will find that most WM owners feel that the hydraulics were money well spent or even better yet, money they wish they would have spent. I think you will find that most of us around here, feel every type of mill is capable of cutting very nice lumber. Even chainsaw mills have their purpose, and mine finds its way out quite often. It just depends what you really need.

Ditto the "welcome to the forum" and ditto on the hydraulics - but again, that's going to depend on your equipment and available hands.

I started with a small (13hp - 20' long - 32" wide) 4 poster with everything manual. I have accessory equipment, but working a track on the ground was tough for my aging back (and I'm not yet 40) and that small engine only pushed small blades which made going slow and my lumber - especially as a newbie - inconsistent and often wavvy. I couldn't, feasibly, mill seasoned hardwood. I cut 7000 bf of pine in a fall on weekends and was pretty darned happy with it.

Now I have a bandmill/monorail with 18hp behind the blade (I'd love more, but this is sweet) and full hydraulics on the machine. I had one of my best milling days ever this past weekend and did all the sawing and tailing by myself (and, as hubby points out, a $10,000 hydraulic helper). He'd come load my queue with our loader and went back to clearing, cutting, and earth moving. Got compliments on how nice my lumber looks - compliments don't come often from hubby, so that was notable. My hydraulics loaded, turned, clamped, and shimmed (with some help). I made about 3 yards of sawdust in a day.

But I got burned buying the mill because it wasn't a factory Woodmizer and the frame wasn't straight. We had the tools, equipment, cash, and knowledge to fix it, but it was a lot of work. Some of my features I like better than WM. I still plan on adding a few features. I like my gas powered hydraulics and a separate motor runs them (like the Timber King). I don't have a lot of "stuff" following the saw head. My head hydraulics and battery also sit above the saw head keeping the weight up and shake down. I cut stuff as small as 6" (pine and hardwoods) and I only have stuff up to 36" wide (mostly Ash). I'm clearing a lot for building. Don't know what I'll do with the machine when I'm done. I could go into business locally sawyering, but computer programming pays better...

Share with the FF what you plan on milling - species, size, who for - and you'll probably get some better direction. If you don't know, maybe you'll be happy going through a few mills for a while and buying and selling to suit your needs. I'll tell you this, it isn't hard to sell a sawmill.

Spend some time with the kind of mill you want to buy before you buy a used one - or spend the money for new.

tnlogger · August 29, 2006, 12:02:47 PM

Greg welcome to the forum. I sure am glad to see that the Tn. contingency is building we need all the help we
can get with dem folks above the MD line :D
Give member woodbeard a pm he's on vacation right now but when he get home I'm sure he'd be glad to have you over for a visit and show you his mill. he has a lt60/30 all hydralic.

gary · August 29, 2006, 07:11:10 PM

I got a used mill. It was 8 years old when I got it. It breaks down everytime I use it. I saved about $10,000 on a new one. Now I wish I had bought a new one instead. This mill was used as a commercial mill by an Amish man. I am still fixing the baleing wire repairs he put on it.

Greg Cook · August 29, 2006, 08:42:10 PM

Many thanks to all who have replied so far. The main purpose for getting a mill (as stated to my wife :

is so that we can recycle the larger cedar growing on the farm into lumber useful to a farm, such as barns, sheds, posts, porch decking, etc. Mostly I just like cutting wood. I doubt that I will be sawing anything for the public, other than if friends need something. (The special rate for friends is 20 cents/BF, if they help! ) Seriously, we are thinking about some small rental cabins in the future, and it will be nice to use "home-grown" timber for them. So you can see that an LT70 fully loaded is not for me. Probably the biggest thing I'll ever have a blade in would be 24" DBH (that's a big cedar, ain't it? ) Again, the advice is much appreciated, and I'm going back to reading old posts and learn what I can. Greg

Part_Timer · August 29, 2006, 08:59:54 PM

Greg Welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place.

Go and run every type of mill you can get you hands on. Then start to make some decisions. There are a lot of nice mills out there with lots of options.

My wife and I are running the Peterson booth at the KY wood expo in Madisonville Sept 15 and 16. If you would like to take a turn on a swinger for a bit come on up and give ours a try. If your going to be making rental cabins I have a lap siding attachment on mine if you'd like to try it. I'm making a new chicken coup this fall and I'm going to side it with ash lap siding.

I believe that Baker will have a booth there as well if you want to try their bandmill.

Disclaimer. I'm the Peterson RC for IN and KY. Just want all the cards on the table

tomboysawyer · August 30, 2006, 12:03:09 AM

Quote from: gary on August 29, 2006, 07:11:10 PM
I got a used mill. It was 8 years old when I got it. It breaks down everytime I use it. I saved about $10,000 on a new one. Now I wish I had bought a new one instead. This mill was used as a commercial mill by an Amish man. I am still fixing the baleing wire repairs he put on it.

Tryin' to figure out what kinda mill you have in that picture - the picture that appears to show off a tree.

Amish specialty or something commercially manufactured? My only experience with Amish saw mill repairs has been good.

gary · August 30, 2006, 04:46:50 AM

The mill is a timberharvester.

Kelvin · August 30, 2006, 08:51:26 AM

Howdy!
Just to let you know, in case you didn't, when looking for a used mill my first place is sawmill exchange. Lots of mills and stuff. Also woodmizer has just started putting some rehabbed mills on ebay, which usually has a woodmizer or two on it.
Norwood is a good manual hobby mill as well. Sure liked the looks and feel of it when i tried a neighbors. I bought new for $24k, as woodmizers seemed to keep their price. Buy 4 years old and save $2-3k? You don't know whats been done, big risk. On the other hand, buy new, and you can resell after and know that you can only take a small loss is what i figure.
They are very technical machines on one hand. They can be bent without being able to tell real easy, and i know a lot of guys who have tweeked their frames by dropping big logs off the side or off a loader badly. It happens, you can fix em, but you better be real careful when inspecting them.
Newer mills have mods that make them nicer as well. You can call woodmizer and they will tell you when major changes have occured. You will see old ones '89's and you will see '99's. If they have different hours how do you compare them?
Hope you find something good. Have fun,
KP

Grappletractor · September 03, 2006, 01:43:45 PM

Hi, A friend of mine has a year 2000 Timber Harvester fully hydraulic with debarker , has 1900 hours .He just upgraded it from a 30inch to a 36 . Wants 18500 for it.If you're interested just let me know.Mill is in Dorcester, New Hampshire.

Grappletractor · September 03, 2006, 01:45:55 PM

Oh yes , he maintained this mill exceptionally well! Although he never towed it anywhere it does have the complete towing package.

woodbeard · October 18, 2006, 08:20:06 AM

Hi, Greg. Just got your PM, and I dug up this thread, don't know how I missed it in the first place. Musta been something about that vacation. :D
Please do come on down, and I'm sure we'll talk each other's ears off, but I figured I'd post some thoughts here as well, since they might be useful to others, too.

I got my Woodmizer a little over a year ago, and before that, I had a Peterson WPF swingblade. I liked a lot of things about the swingmill, but I would definitely have to recommend a bandmill in your case. The main factor being the Eastern Red Cedar on your farm. I have sawed a lot of cedar on both mills, and I find it much easier to do on the bandmill. Most cedar logs are small and fairly light. I had a hard time getting them to stay still on the swingmill. Cedars are shaped oddly, usually much smaller at the top than at the bottom, and the knots are much harder than the rest of the wood. This makes it difficult to hold in the bunks, and when the saw hit a big knot it would want to grab. Often, I ended up leaving a good board in the slab. It's tough enough to get decent yield out of this species any way you slice it, and I get much more out of them with the bandmill.
On bigger cedar logs, which you seem to have, there is often a lot of rot in the middle of the tree. With the bandmill, if I start to see that, I can start cutting thick, full width slabs until I get thru it. These can be very valuable as table tops, where the dry rot is acceptable as "character". The same rotten spot might ruin a 1" board.
As for the hydraulic issue, I absolutely love them, and am very thankful the folks here talked me into springing the extra bread for them, worth every penny to me.
In your case, though, you might do just as well without them. Sawing cedar goes fairly slow compared to other trees, and I find I still have to do a bunch of turning and tweaking by hand, as the hydraulic implements are better suited for larger, more regularly shaped logs. I am assuming that since you have a farm, you have some sort of tractor, and can can probably load logs with it, so that addresses that part of the hydraulic issue. Not trying to steer you away from the hydraulics, just saying that if it came down to it, a manual mill might suit your purposes just fine. Besides, you can always trade up later on, if you feel the need.