Chain angle fro stump cutting

[bedlam]

Would I be right to think that after I cut a tree down, that if I use the chainsaw to cut down into the stump that I should sharpen the chain to a straight across angle?(no angle to it as you do if you are using it to rip lumber from the logs.) As the downward cutting action would be ripping as opposed to crosscut.
Allan

[Snag]

I believe the answer to be yes if I understood correctly.  How much sawing are you going to be doing like that?  You dont necessarily have to have a ripping chain, just works better.  If you wont be doing much of it, I wouldnt bother.

[Raphael]

  I suppose it depends on why you are ripping the stump in the first place and the size of your chainsaw.

If you are just quartering a few stumps to make firewood handling easier, I'd stick with the stock chain angle unless you find your saw really can't handle the job, then I'd try grinding at 20 or 25° next and see if I could come up with a working balance between ripping and crosscutting.

If you are ripping flicthes that's another story and you'll want  a smooth cutting ripping chain.  My ripping chains are ground to a 10° top plate angle.

[Snag]

well put Raphael...

[bedlam]

I have a Johnsured 2054 with 16 inch bar. Id be doing alot. enough stumps, that if the saw is toast when im done thats well worth the money as well.
What I am doing is, after using the chainsaw to down the tree, (crosscut). I have the stump which I have cut as close to the ground as possible.
I want to then cut downward into it hopefully below grade. This would then be cutting with the grain(rip cut).
When you use the chainsaw to"rip" cut such as with a beam maker or other device to rip logs down to lumber, they sell or you can re-cut the teeth so they are 90 degrees rather than the original angle.
I plan to use an older used chain and grind the teeth , in the machine sharpener to 90 degrees.
Even with a freshly sharpened chain it is slow going when you cut with the grain.
I didn't know if anyone has changed theirs or any other tricks to get the stumps cut to below grade.
I think, if the square cut teeth would work Id change the angle with each sharpening, till they are at 90 degrees , instead of one big change.
Thanks
Allan

[Raphael]

  I'd save my time, my saw and my back by renting a stump grinder.
Sounds like you're going to be at increased risk of kick back, you'll want to be careful of that.

[bedlam]

Thanks for the info I think it may be more than I want tot deal with . My other idea is to use a drill and bore many many holes into the stump to speed the rotting.
Allan

[Snag]

The other problem is I think you would find yourself sharpening the chain constantly.  Whenever you are sawing that close to the ground a dull chain is not too far in the future.

[thecfarm]

I take it you want the stumps to rot quicker.I do use my saw to cut a bowl into the stumps,but I don't do this all that often,mostly on any poplar trees.Seems like I cut one of these and get 1000 shoots all over the place.But I don't get through the bark,I guess that's what I want to say.If you cut your stumps close to the ground,the way I do,I'm lucky to get two trees cut before I have to sharpen the chain.Drilling I suppose will work.If you're going that route,use a ½ drill and a good size wood bit.I put rock salt into any of my poplar stumps and keep the bowl wet with water.If the salt is gone I add more rock salt,water gone add more water.This will really do a job on those stubborn ones,but it does take time.The trick is to keep those suckers from growing on the stumps.You don't want the suckers to feed the stumps.I use a weed wacker and a small mower to do this with.If I keep right on top of this,the stumps are all rotten in about 5 years with white maple.Soft wood is just about the same.I do have a bushhog,but I can do a much better job with a mower or a weed wacker.I've been claiming back grown up pastures for 30 years.It's a slow process to do it this way.

[Al_Smith]

Sharpen that old chain you were going to regrind and wack that stump off at ground level.Drill some holes in it and dump some powdered milk in them.Keep doing this and the stump will rot in no time.

Something in the milk causes the wood to rot faster.

I personaly wouldn't regrind that chain just whittle down one stump but do as you wish.That little saw doesn't have near enough power to do any serious milling.

[thecfarm]

I have never heard of powered milk used.I have one good size poplar to try it on.I've been leaving it because I know what will happen when I cut it down.

[Al_Smith]

Here ya go.http://www.progressivefarmer.com/farmer/landowner/article/0,24672,1113920,00.html

[bedlam]

Thanks for all the great responces. I think I will cut as close to the ground as possible. And see how the hole drilling goes. Maybe Ill  test both the milk and the salt on the same specie stump and see what happens.The side shoots that grow out the stump ill just brush hog down.
I can see how it duls fast. Just making the  one cut on the base, and being careful not to cut dirt or rocks , makes it dull quickly.
Not to drag this post out forever. but what amount of time are we talking with the milk salt idea. Ive noticed that some stumps (untreated) rotted over one year. I suspect they were dead to begin with.
If I were to have a backhoe remove them, I then have to fill them all in with dirt. and that an expense and pain also.
this is what I found. interesting. Will definetly sound weird to people when I tell them I need to feed and water my tree stump (I typed lol instead of using a Forestry Forum smiley, whats wrong with me?)

Again ThaDrill large holes, a few inches deep, into the stump.

Fill the holes with a source of nitrogen and add water. The nitrogen source can be manure or a home fertilizer high in nitrogen.

Apply powdered milk to jump-start the work of fungi. Mushrooms show the fungi are working.

Soak the ground around the stump.

Cover the stump with a plastic tarp or dirt.

Cover the tarp or dirt with mulch.

Wet the mulch. You may want to add rocks to anchor the tarp.

Remove the tarp and add water and a teaspoon of nitrogen occasionally. Then cover the stump again.

Use a herbicide to stop new sprouts. However, the roots of one tree can graft with the roots of a nearby tree and kill it as well. The best way to remove sprouts is to just cut them when they are 6 to 8 inches tall.

Add a bit of borax to red cedar and pine stumps. This prevents a fresh-cut stump from being inoculated by annosus root rot, a soil-dwelling fungus. The fungi spreads into the stump and roots and, potentially, onto healthy pines and red cedars through root grafts.
Thanks Allan
Alan

[thecfarm]

That idea covering the stumps with a tarp sounds like alot of work and time to me.The salt trick will still take about 5 years to work.I only use salt on those stubborn trees that want to produce 1000 shots when I cut the tree down.I don't feel it speeds up the rotting process in any way.The white maple stumps I just keep removing the suckers and it takes about 5 years for the stump to be gone.I wouldn't dig out my stumps because of all the rocks I have. Just keep on removing those suckers when they get 6-8 inches high.Works for me.

[rebocardo]

> I want to then cut downward into it hopefully below grade

Using a ripping chain to do that is asking for kickback because you are likely to hit the nose.

Plus, if you are going to find a rock, it will be in the rootball/stump at ground level where the tree grew around it. Which is why when I rent a stump grinder, I rent one where I do not have to pay for teeth.

> other tricks to get the stumps cut to below grade

I cut 4-18 inches above grade, depending on the location and depending if I want to run over the stump by accident or not. Then I rent a tow behind stump grinder, $149 a day including tax, and take most pine stumps out in 10-15 minutes 3-6 inches below grade. A 12" high pine stump just gets exploded and whipped and chewed by the stump grinder in less time it would take to cut it with a chain saw.

Cutting stumps low, because of how you are holding the saw, can get a bit dangerous if you hit something in the stump.

If you have a huge amount of stumps, it is well worth it to mark them with orange paint and have a Bobcat with the chain grinder come and whip them all below ground.

The other way, is to take a drill, drill some 1/2" holes, fill the stump and holes with gasoline and light it.
Then take an axe and mash down the left over stuff.

[Blake22]

A stump grinder is the only way to go. I've been grinding stumps for 10 years & I've seen all kinda stuff, but one thing I know is you get that saw close to the ground & it will be dull in 2 seconds. You can "wish" it gone faster than you can saw it. Where are you? I'll make you a deal on grinding them out.

[mike_van]

I only did this once, but it worked - I had an dead Elm I took down, good 24" dia, on the end of a stone wall.  The tree had grown into a few of the rocks.  Couldn't grind into the wall, backhoe would have shook the wall down.  I cut to about 6" above grade, bought 3 bags of charcoal, soaked it up with lighter fluid. Lit her up, covered it with some steel plates to try to keep the heat down. Next day, stump was a few inches below grade, still smoked for a few days after.

[Giel]

Agree with the stumpgrinder solution. Used them all the time when still doing arboriculture work in an urban environment. An alternative and cheaper solution is to take a can of Round-up and a brush. Use the brush to apply the Round-up on the sapwood of the stump (no need to waste it on the core wood). In Holland this is commonly used to control Prunus serotina, which is considered a pest due  it's excessive re-growth that suffocates indigenous vegetation. No regrowth should occur and obviously dead stumps rot more quickly.

my two cents...

Giel