Conservation easements

Ron Wenrich · December 22, 2002, 07:11:35 PM

Poll results are in for the conservation easement question. We had 77 votes, which is a pretty good turnout.

33.77% would sign a conservation easement.
32.47% don't know what a conservation easement is.
25.97% would not sign a conservation easement.
7.79% aren't sure whether they would sign one or not.

Basically, a conservation is a restriction that is permanently entered unto your property. It is a legal restriction and is between a landowner and a government agency or a land trust.

The landowner can usually continue to harvest timber and plant crops, but they are limited in any development.

Land Trust Alliance is a good place to start reading about conservation easements. There is something like 1200 different land trusts in the US.

I'm one of those unsure voters. It sounds good now, but what happens when the land trust starts to change it's outlook down the road? The leadership of these organizations can and will change. So will their direction.

Tom · December 22, 2002, 07:48:03 PM

I'm one of those "No" votes. It is generally easy for me to decide to give up my property, time and freedom.

I am of the mind that I can conserve wildlife on 'my' place without giving up any rights of ownership, especially permanantly.

Many people make decisions of a philanthropic nature, giving land, money or freedoms to Government because the program makes it sound like they will be a "good" person if they do.

"Here, sign this piece of paper so that you will not have decision making power over you land anymore and The Department will. You will be a good boy." No Thankyou.

I don't vote for politicians that promise more or higher taxes either. I don't vote for politicians who threaten the existance of my Liberties. (read gun control here) I don't vote for anyone who threatens my ability to be independent and make my own decisions.(motorcycle helmets, seat belts) I don't believe in bussing children 5 hours out of an 8 hour work day to schools in towns and neighborhoods where they don't live.

I'm just a mean, selfish, independent, old man that believes that what I bought is mine and, within the law, what I do is my business.

I guess that makes me a United States Citizen, huh?

Tillaway · December 22, 2002, 08:11:22 PM

I am also one of the no votes. It sounds good but you leave less to your family down the road. The only people I know of out here that will do these are the very wealthy that don't need the land to make a living. Unfortunately the land also does not produce for the community as a whole. An argument can be made that the conservation easement gives back to the community but good land management can produce more income for the community, keeps the land fully on the tax roles and benefits the environment.

Paul_H · December 22, 2002, 08:21:19 PM

This past Summer,we were traveling around Southern BC in a motorhome.We stopped in the town of Hope,to spend the day.I have been through,and past,(even beyond) Hope before,but never sight seeing.
We went for lunch in a great little restaurant,across the road from a large Park in the middle of town.The waitress told me that the park was donated to the city many years ago,by an old woman,with the condition that they never build on it,that it was to remain trees and grass.It was a full city block in size,with large fir trees and a large field.There were scores of people enjoying the day in the park.

I asked her what the building was in the corner,and she told me that the city needed a place for their town hall.I said doesn't that bother you that they didn't respect her wishes?
She replied that property was too valuable to waste,and that there was a battle going on because a lot of the town people wanted to build a community hall on the Park.

I never spoke my mind further,because she would be handling my food,but I don't understand how a woman's gift,with a clear condition, could be re-interpreted after she died.They accepted the condition,and received the gift,now they are reneging on the deal.
I would like to see a judge find a relative of the owner,and give it back to them.

Tom · December 22, 2002, 08:31:17 PM

Ah yes! Old Aunt Gertie. I remember her well. "Tom", she says, "I want you to have some of my land, maybe a piece of the city". I liked Aunt Gertie. What was her last name? :D :D ;)

Paul_H · December 22, 2002, 08:52:59 PM

Uncle Tom,you've convinced me,now we(it has to be "we" to work) have to approach the good people of Hope ;)

Phil · December 23, 2002, 08:37:00 AM

I've seen several cases of landowners who love their land, who manage it wisely for timber, wildlife, etc. but once they're gone, the first thing the heirs want to do is divide it into lots and sell it.

In a case like that, I suppose a conservation easement could be a favorable thing. On the other hand, you could blame the original landowner for failing to teach his/her offspring about the value of the undeveloped land.

My dad and his six brothers and sisters inherited some acreage from my grandfather, and it seems like every couple of years or so, an aunt or uncle brings another offer from a developer to the family. My dad -- being the oldest and the only one who ever worked with my grandfather in his sawmill -- understood the respect he had for forestland. (A respect that somehow trickled down into my decision to become a forester, I suppose.) So, dad always manages to talk the rest of 'em out of it.

It's a tough call. I'm not anti-conservation easement, but I don't think I'd ever connect my property with one. I fully expect my son (who's only one year old now) to someday respect the property as much as I do.

Also on the topic of easements, Kentucky just got involved in the Forest Legacy program.

Sorry for the ramblings. I guess the holiday/family thing got me feeling warm and fuzzy. :D

Phil

Ron Scott · December 23, 2002, 10:16:26 AM

Many back here do Conservation Easements for the Property Tax breaks offered. The constraints on the property need to be well understood by all parties and implemented as described.

Ron Wenrich · December 23, 2002, 02:30:33 PM

I really don't understand how these things work. I've read up on them and I find there are just too many unknowns to make it very attractive to me.

What happens when the land trust goes bust? Is that easement voided?

If the government wants to restrict any type of activity on the land, all they have to do is zone it in a certain way or tax it. That makes some land more valuable than others.

Or they can pass laws, such as the ones dealing with wetlands and endangered species. I don't like them trying to micro-manage at the macro level, though.

I've seen some really nasty deed restrictions. But, they were shot down in the courts. I wonder if a sharp lawyer couldn't get around these things?

I worked on a property that was deeded to stay forever natural. It took some talking, but we managed to sell the trust on doing a management plan and some salvage and thinnings. The area looked pretty good and recovered quickly.

15 years later, the county decided that they wanted the property and took the land over from the trust. The trust was in another county, so our county said it had more interest in it. So, they were effective in busting that deed easement.

Their next ploy was to build a nature center and they entertained the idea of putting up a cell phone tower. Public outcry is the only thing that saved the building of either structure.

swampwhiteoak · December 23, 2002, 02:39:20 PM

Like RonS alluded to one of the positives on the side of the conservation easement is that it devalues the property, so estate taxes are less likely to be a problem for a family that wants to keep the land. Otherwise they will have to sell their families land (or part of it) to pay the taxes.

Den Socling · December 23, 2002, 02:39:27 PM

I used to me a monitor for a conservancy. While I worked with a lot of decent landowners, I believe the incentive was the tax break and not the goodness of their hearts. Limitations were negotiated before the easement. Here are a couple I remember. The guy with the oldest known tree in the area got a tax break in return for agreeing not to cut the tree down. Some people with an old mansion along the Susquehanna got a tax break for agreeing not to remodel and change the appearance of the mansion. So, you might not give up much and you might save a bundle in taxes.

Ron Wenrich · December 23, 2002, 05:49:39 PM

Which taxes are you talking about? If its inheritance tax, then it has to be an estate worth more than $1.4 million. That's not hard if its a nice stand of cherry. But, the timber value would still remain.

But, land taxes are a different matter. You can accomplish the same thing through Clean and Green without binding your land with a permanent easement.

The Nature Conservancy is starting to try to get off the ground in our county. So far they have one piece of property, and it doesn't seem like the guy uses much forestry advice. He planted pin oak, which has pretty low market value. They are going after historic and unique ecological areas.

The government has stopped several park projects due to the bog turtle, so that leverage is taken away. The state is actively preserving farmland by buying up the development rights. They haven't gone into the woodlots, at least to my knowledge.

Den Socling · December 23, 2002, 07:01:43 PM

I don't know the tax details. I think there may be some real estate tax break in at least some cases. Then, there is the estate tax. You can, in effect, devalue your land by agreeing to keep a housing development off of it , for example. Then too, income tax may be reduced by the value of the gift (easement).

As a land owner, I would be uncomfortable with the term "in perpetuity" but I know easements help some people out with their taxes. And, basically, you just agree to limited development of your property.

swampwhiteoak · December 24, 2002, 12:29:18 PM

RonW,
I was talking about inheritance tax. Like you said it takes a big estate, but there are a lot of money-poor, land-rich families around. In one case that comes to my mind, a family had owned near 1000 acres for over 100 years and wanted their sons to be able to continue to farm it. The property was close to the city. The land value was around 8,000/acre, after the conservation easement it was 1900/acre. So very little inheritance tax will kick in and the rest of the family will be able to continue to farm. I think the terms of the easement allowed them to build a couple of houses in certain areas for family members.

swampwhiteoak · December 24, 2002, 01:32:44 PM

Another thing I forgot to mention, if a person signs development rights away to some group, they can claim it as a charitable donation and spread it out over a few years to get more tax breaks.

Corley5 · December 24, 2002, 02:27:00 PM

We did a little checking into selling our development rights to the state but didn't carry it any farther mainly because the sale of them has to be approved by the local township board. We were informed that in no way would the board approve it because of their loss of tax revenue >:( >:( >:( The agreement we looked at would have allowed us to keep farming in any way we wanted and allowed family members to build houses on the property but nothing could have been developed beyond that.

Tom · December 24, 2002, 02:29:53 PM

Who is this Philanthropical individual who has such power that he's able to bully citizens out of their land and personal possesions?

Ron Wenrich · December 24, 2002, 08:07:38 PM

!. Township supervisor

2. Township zoning authority.

3. County supervisor.

Don't get me wrong. I believe in governing at the local level. The farther away from the source, the worst the remedy.

But, too often we get into the "Good Ole Boys" Club. I'll scratch your back it you scratch mine. I've seen it and it really pisses me off.

In my county, we have a "real estate development" ploy. It uses a few initials to identify the players. Hmm, a laywer, a realator, a money man, a factory farmer.

When all is said and done, they buy land for penny's on the dolllar and turn it into development land. I've researched the deeds, and I know that someone got screwed out of their land But , who cares? The rich gets rich...........

Lenny · December 29, 2002, 02:34:47 PM

I`m all for current use. In N.H.there is a 10 ac. min. to qualify.short term it`s not the way to go,for long term the tax money saved is well worth it.The land or part of the land can be taken off current useat any time.The cost is 10% of what the town asseses the land for.
For axample I have this 38 ac. lot,assesed at 40,000. 36 ac. in current use and 2ac. building lot.It would cost me 4,000 to take this land out of curret use.I have saved much more than that the 15 years it was in current use.
In current use I can cut 20 cords of firewood,20,000 bf of lumber and 2,000 yds. of gravel per year for my use without any tax on it.
this works for me ;) Now if I can just get my neibor to stop counting stumps :-/

woodmills1 · December 30, 2002, 04:19:20 AM

yes the NH current use program is very good. First it allows those of us with small pockets to afford large parcels with out being property taxed to death, and thus keeps much acerage as farm, woodlot, forest, or open land. And also yes you can cut certain amounts of saw logs and firewood with out tax impact. However the tax impact on timber and firewood is not related to the current use program. Here in NH we have a timber tax. trees harvested for profit are taxed, wether for logs or for firewood. we pay 10% of the market value as established by the state, it usually is far below the actual value received. Before any cut job a form called intent to cut must be filed and then after the job a follow up form is sent that tallies the actual amount cut, then the local assessor sends the timber tax bill. We don't have an income tax but we have many other taxes to make up for it.

Lenny, read you current use forms again because I think the 10% penalty for removal from current use is based on the fair market value of the acerage removed, and not on the assessed value of the entire parcel. In my understanding if I want to convert 2 acres to a house lot I will have to pay 10% of the value of that 2 acre lot. So with building lots worth between 80 and 120 thousand in my area, the penalty would be between 8 and 12 thousand. It is also my understanding that no penalty is assessed until the use is actually changed on the ground, so that the market value can be assessed. I hope I am wrong but this is the line of thinking that most of the people in the current use program in my area understand.

Rob · December 31, 2002, 06:16:41 AM

Lenny,
I would just like to clarify that our NH current use only allows 10,000 bdft and not 20,000 you did get the 20 cords correct though all for personal use only.

Hey woodmills where are you located in Hudson I would like to meet some of you guys here that are from NH sometime in the future.

Thanks Rob..

Lenny · December 31, 2002, 03:05:08 PM

Hi Rob
your right about the 10000bf on the lumber.My mistake.
I don`t plan on taking any land out of current use that already isn`t. Three lots total the 50. 12ac with my house with 10 in current use, another 31ac. with 4ac not in current use, then another 7 ac. lot thats all in current use,
Where in Derry are you? I work In north Londonderry on independance dr.durring the week.
Lenny

Rob · January 01, 2003, 04:20:49 AM

Lenny,

I know right where independence dr. is,I live kinda on the Windham town line but the Londonderry line is about a mile down the road also.I live off of Fordway Ext.Maybe we should get together sometime and do a little tree cuttin or something..What do you think??

thanks Rob..

woodmills1 · January 01, 2003, 10:58:57 AM

hey guys we are practically neighbors. I live up on Bush Hill behind the old Bensons wild animal farm. do you ever hit the Nan King chinease resturant on 111, or do you know greg and debbie at Derry marine? they are good friends of ours.

Rob · January 01, 2003, 11:48:21 AM

Hey James,

Your right we are practically neighbors I know exactly where Bush Hill Rd is,I don't personally know Greg from Derry Marine but a friend of mine bought a sled from there I think it was last year sometime I only met him for a few minutes..If you don't mind me asking who do you have haul your logs for you when you need too??We should get together sometime..

Thanks Rob..