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Any of you out there using 2" wide bandsaw blades?

Started by LOGDOG, July 11, 2006, 08:29:31 PM

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LOGDOG

Hi Everyone,

   New member here. Hope I don't break any rules right off the bat by posting this. I was curious if any of you out there are using 2" wide bandsaw blades on your bandmills or re-saws. If so, I've got 5 boxes of brand new 2" wide bands that are .055 thick I believe and 19'1" long. I had purchased a LogMaster sawmill and bought these blades with it but the mill caught fire twice in the first week due to electrical problems. So ... I sent the mill back and got stuck with these blades. I've got a Peterson Swing Blade mill now so I have no use for the bands. If you think you can use these bands holler back at me with some contact info. I will say this ... these bands cut excellent before the mill caught fire. Only about 4 or 5 blades have one sharpening on them ...the rest are brand new. Hope to hear from some of you and look forward to future discussions. Pics of the blades are available on request.

Thanks!

twoodward15

You gotta tell us where you live LOGDOG.  How are we gonna stop by to chat and drink iced tea if you don't live anywhere??  Welcome aboard.  I hope you enjoy it here.
108 ARW   NKAWTG...N      Jersey Thunder

LOGDOG

Thanks for the warm welcome Mr. Woodward. I'm in Northwest Louisiana. How about everyone else? Oh and the Iced Tea is never far here.  ;D

See ya 'round!

Ivey

LOGDOG  welcome aboard. fairly new here myself. good people here! tell us about the logmaster mill and the fires. Been looking at a logmaster mill would like to know more about them and there problems. Also how are those folks to deal with? Good luck on moving those blades :)
Logmaster LM-4 , New Holland 4x4 w/FEL , Ford L-9000 tandem w/ prentice TS-33 loader, Nyle L200M, Cook's 4" board edger, John Deere 310se backhoe w/ forks

LOGDOG

Hey thanks Ivey. Yep, folks here seem nice. Lots of talent here as well. I've enjoyed everyone's pics on the site for quite some time. Not really sure why I didn't register sooner.

   On the LogMaster fires ..well, it was an ordeal and a half! I live not far from their factory - about 2 hrs. or so. I made numerous trips over there to look at their mills. Admittedly at first I was impressed. They were heavy duty by all appearances. I ended up buying their LM6 Double Cut machine, but chose to run a single cut band to begin with as the double cut bands were $125.00 each. Pretty high if you ask me. I had the 85 h.p. Cummins diesel on it  with the computer setworks. Really looked like it was going to be a nice rig. Admittedly, when it wasn't on fire, the mill cut very well.  ::) Lots of power.

   However, on returning back to my jobsite on a monday morning, I found that the engine had caught fire. Specifically the circuit board that controlled the servo actuator for the throttle arm on the Cummins motor. Apparently, the connection was staying open and drawing power even after the mill was shut down and everything was turned off. The problem was, they didn't put an inline fuse or breaker in to prevent that circuit board from drawing power,overheating and ultimately combusting into flames. This could have been a real nightmare because they actually have their fuel tank located right there next to this problem area. So I called them, they said drag the mill over and they'd fix it. Well I got there and Herman, the owner said I had to have left a switch in the on position for it to happen. Which is totally wrong and I told him so. I said they needed something in-line to prevent overload on that circuit board as a safety and they wouldn't put something in. They said this is how they had done all their mills. Well, off I went again - assured that it had been fixed and drove back 4 hours to where my custom job was and re-setup again. I made sure I did everything by the book ...all switches where they were supposed to be. I had 4 men standing their watching as I started it up, let it warm up for about 10 minutes and pow! The circuit board bursts into flames. We had a camera and took pictures of it. We shut the mill off and the circuit board continued to burn.  While it was on fire, I called Herman (the owner of the factory) got his wife on the phone and told her I needed to speak to Herman right away because my mill was on fire and I didn't know what to do. She said and I quote, "Herman's on another call long distance right now, give me your number and I'll have him call you back when he's done."!!! I'm like you gotta be kidding me!!!!!!! My F@#*^% mill is on fire and you want to take a message and call me back!?!?!?!? ( I didn't swear at her but that's what was in my mind.) Well, that's what they did. By that time I had put the fire out and was super hot. Herman knew it and told me to bring it back over and they'd fix it. I didn't like that idea as I had already made several trips back and forth to get it fixed the first time and bring it back,set up,take down,re-set up,etc. I felt he should come get it if my time was of no value to him. Well I drug the thing back over there. Again he wanted to tell me I had left a switch in the wrong position. But I told him he was full of it and that I had 4 eyewitnesses and pictures of the fire and the switches all being in the correct position. They'd say one thing was the reason and then contradict it with another thing completely opposite. The more they talked and made excuses the hotter I got and I finally said, "Listen, we're done. You can take your mill back, and in fact I'm bringing the $8000.00 edger back and the $4000.00 sharpener back too. We'll just go our seperate ways." I hadn't approved the bank funding them on the equipment yet because of the problems and once my bank and insurance company were aware of the problems they were in no hurry to fund it either. I asked Herman and his son Ed that if this is how they treat a brand new customer that they hadn't even got a the first check from yet, how in the world were they going to treat me after 2 or 3 years had passed and we weren't in the dating stage any more? So with that I purged LogMaster from my system. I'm so glad I did!!!

   Other problems with the mill:

   The debarker they offer is lame. It's a super thin flat disk ran off the hydraulics and for the cutting it has a chainsaw chain wrapped around the circumference of the disk. They charged like $3995.00 for that mess. The first time I used it and it needed to cut a groove in the log the disk bent and was wobbly. When I say it's thin I mean thin! Not like WoodMizer's all steel debarker blade.

   Also, I had 3 hydraulic loading arms and because of the way they set their hydraulic system up, the arms would not raise together. The last arm was always lagging behind. This was a problem, so while they were replacing the first circuit board, they actually capped off the hydraulic line to the third arm and disabled it. Nice huh? Pay for it but can't use it???

   I could go on ...but I think you get the idea. I'd never recommend anyone buy from them. Very unprofessional staff, the factory is a pig sty, and the workmanship is shoddy at best.

   I've got a Peterson Automatic Swing Blade Mill now that I'll post some pictures of when I have time. I really like it and the Peterson's and their crew have been excellent to work with even though we're oceans apart.

   I hope this helps you with your decision making on the Log Master. Myself? I'd recommend you pass. Lots of other well constructed machines out there with much more hospitable, helpful staff. Hope this didn't come off too negative. Just want you to have the facts so you can make a well informed decision on your investment of time and money.  :) Look forward to hearing more from you and what you decide. ;D

Brad_S.

Welcome aboard, LOGDOG! 8)

Interesting post. I've never seen a LogMaster in person but have lusted after one after seeing write ups on them. I'm certainly dis-illusioned now. Sounds like a mill with a lot of potential if only it were backed up better.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

LOGDOG

BINGO Brad!!!!! Thanks for the welcome as well. Yep, ever here the saying, "Sell the sizzle, Not the steak"? That's what Logmaster does in my opinion. Problem is, You and I want the Steak not just exciting ideas. Definitely better options out there. Lust for the LogMaster no more.  ;D What kind of a mill do you have now? Look forward to talking with you more.

LOGDOG

tnlogger

welcome aboard LOGDOG
One thing I'll say is the sponsors of thes fine forum stand behind their product.
All new mills have glitches but it is the suport that makes the mill.
I think we have a few members that have a logmaster it would be nice to see their coments on this to
gene

Brad_S.

Right now I'm on my second Timber Harvester. (FWIW, TH tried 2" blades but decided the performance quality over a 1 1/2" blade was not worth the extra $.) While I plan on staying with TH for portable milling, I have reached the limit of what it can add to my operation. An associate and I have a used Sanborn reserved for ourselves somewhere in Uncle Buck territory (MN) but we have yet to secure our financing. Sanborn is another mill that is a good idea that can be improved upon. We're going to use it as a platform to heavily modify and customize to our needs.
As I mentioned to Highpockets, at the risk of getting blacklisted from your "OK guy" list, my great grandfather visited your area of Louisiana back in the Civil War but didn't stay long! bat_smailey whiteflag_smiley I retraced his steps about 10 years ago. I got a much better reception, found everyone in NW LA very hospitable. smiley_wavy
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

tcsmpsi

Yes, it most certainly would, tnlogger.  Awaiting the (thrice delayed) arrival of a logmaster, I would very much like to hear from any others who have or had their units.

I have already PM'd LogDog.  By the way, LOGDOG, welcome to the forum!

Logmaster has until the 21st before there is a reckoning.  If it is not everything that I was promised (since I have additions), I will be forced to go another direction.  

One of the simple reasons of going logmaster was its near vicinity.  But, if that is not going to be a benefit, I will most certainly be going to one of the sponsors here for a mill.
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

LOGDOG

Hey Brad,

   No worries about getting balcklisted from me over your great grandfather kickin' some butt down here. I'm a transplanted Yankee from WI so no doubt some of my kin did some butt kicking here too.  ;D I married a southern girl ... they sure are pretty down here.  8) Maybe one day I can talk her into moving back north.

LOGDOG

Brad_S.

Quotegreat grandfather kickin' some butt down here
Actually, it was the other way around. :-[ His regiment held the line at Mansfield, but on the whole, the southern boys did the butt kicking.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

LOGDOG

Doh!!!!!!!! My bad Brad. Hey did you here about how the Yankees surrounded the Confederates in Vicksburg and literally starved them out? Hardcore times back then. Makes you appreciate the times we live in today. Although, I guess sacrifices are still being made today too huh? Mansfield is a stone's throw by the way.  ;)

Kansas

And now, my story with Logmaster..and its gonna be a long one.
I first met herman at wagoner, oklahoma, several years back. Oklahoma has its "forestry on the grow" event there, with seminars and equipment demonstrations. I was impressed with the mill. I told him we were looking to upgrade our edger, and farther down the road, we wanted a mill that could cut larger logs than our Woodmizer LT 40 HD. Herman assured me they could build both. A little over a year and a half ago, they had a repo edger come back that had been custom built. They outfitted it for us to set it up as a gang rip saw (three fixed blades) plus one moveable saw, so we could use it for both pallet lumber and grade lumber. I went down to Nagadoches, texas and picked it up. Got to meet Herman, Ed, and the crew there, and was impressed with what I saw. We have had some minor problems with it, but overall, I certainly cant complain, considering the amount of "fuzzy" cottonwood we have rammed through there. Based on my experience with the edger, I felt fairly safe to order a custom built LM6 Mill last june. We wanted a mill that would cut 48" logs, and independent movable console for all the controls, 3 phase electric motor (100 horse) stationary. It was to be ready to pick up in August. August came.... and went....as did some more months. It was finally ready to be picked up in December. Although frustrating, I didnt want to push the issue and have a mill that wasnt thoroughly ready to go. We got the mill, and set it up. When we went to fire it up, the lid blew off the top of the cannister where the hydraulic filter is. 10 gallons of hydraulic oil went all over the console, and everyone standing around it. We figure it wasnt on tight due to shipping, so we tightened it down, fired, it back up, and...... same thing. I call Log master... and hear for the first time what will be a very familiar refrain...... We never heard of that happening before. They contact the company providing the hydraulics, and learn that theres been a few problems with that. They ship out a metal lid to replace the plastic one. We fire it back up again, and the plastic connector between the main drive hydraulics to the bandwheel, and the band wheel, breaks apart. We call Logmaster. They have never had this happen before. They send out a replacement, we put it on. Fire, it up, and within a few minutes, it blows apart again. We call Logmaster, they send out several more collars. We get to looking, and realize that they arent lining up. We do some shimming, fire it up, and, it works. We cut our first log, feeling our way through the controls. On the second log, smoke starts pouring out of the electrical panel. They installed a number 2 Cutler Hammer starter, which is oversized for the application, and shouldnt ever be a problem.  The starter is smoking and hot. We call Logmaster. They have never had this problem before. They talk to the people that built the control panel, and we get informed we must have low voltage. We know thats not the problem because we upgraded from 240/3 phase to the 480 3/phase because we needed the extra capacity for the mill. New transformers were installed by the electric company, new wire was run to the mill, by a licensed electrician. All the voltage figures were correct at the control panel. We get told that cutler hammer will gladly replace the defective starter, but only after they verify its a bad starter. As such, they want us to send 2000 dollars to cover the new starter they want to send out to us. We said to hell with that, wired around the starter, and continued trying to run the mill. We sent the starter in, cutler hammer declared it was caused by low voltage, replaced the coil and contacts, and didnt charge us a thing. I still dont have a clue what actually happened to it. Its worked perfectly ever since.
Our next problem was the carriage head jumping off track. We called Logmaster, and were told that only happens when you start or stop suddenly. In our case, it jumped off track when were in the middle of a cut, stopping, starting, etc. We pull out the welder, and do some beefing up , solve the problem. At this point its beginning to dawn on me we are going to be pretty well responsible for a heck of a lot of reengineering.
Next problem was the nylatrack sections that house the cables as the head moves back and forth. Again, we are told, they never had a problem with this before. We keep having sections break apart where it hooks up at the front of the mill. Not knowing what else to do, and finding the nylatrack name on the sections, I do a google search and find the manufacturer. Im going to put in a plug for these people. A sales representative came out 3 times, to measure, look it over, etc. They help identify the problem, we pull out the welder again, and fix the problem.
Finally, we are getting a lot of the bugs worked out, with occasionally several days passing without major problems. Thats when the main drive gearbox freezes up. (this is about at the 3 months mark of owning it). Logmaster tells me they had a problem with the manufacturer of the gearboxes, and they switched to a new manufacturer. They send out a new gear box. One thing we noticed, when we tore apart the old gearbox, was that the bearings seemed dry. They were using a type of grease you would find in a grease gun. We suggest that maybe an oil might be better suited for the bearings. We are told they know exactly what kind of grease to put in the box. The new, improved gearbox lasts exactly one month. They send another one out. And this is where I lost all respect for Logmaster. We were told they wanted to send it out with an extra long shaft, that would stick thru the shield covering the bandwheel. We should mount a bearing on the shield . That means, everytime we would change the blade, we would have to pull the bearing off. I told them to send a gearbox without any grease, they did, we put in 80/90, and 3 months later, its holding up. We have owned this mill 7 months. There are a variety of other problems we have had, all of which we are learning to deal with, realizing that we are going to have to make this mill work with our own engineering. I figure that in the next year, we will rebuild certain components involving the log turner, log loader issues, and eventually get what we thought we were buying. I have learned to try and go directly to the companies that supply the parts, as they are much more likely to try and help us solve problems. I guess life is about learning..... and we certainly did.

tcsmpsi

Kansas,

Thanks for the review.  If you were given to do so, what would you think the overall problem is?

Been to logmaster, met all the folks, saw the components, structure, etc.  Of course, I have also heard the smiling, rather nonchalant response to continued delay from Ed and Herman.   ;)  I hate to see folks put themselves in that position.   I do honestly believe that they have the very best of intent, which is to build a heavy-duty, impressive mill, for a relatively unheard of (within the industry) price.

When I made the deal on the mill, I thought the "6-8 weeks" was loooong (think I might have actually gasped lightly), then figured that well, that allowed for contingincies and was why they were more able to keep their pricing low.  Now, having been about 14 weeks, it appears that they have more cornered themselves with that low pricing.

Trying to accomplish too much for too little.

But then, like ol' Freeman said long ago, "Yeah, what would some ol' retired hippie know about anything?"    :D
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Ivey

Thanks for all the info, I think I found out what I was looking for.
Logmaster LM-4 , New Holland 4x4 w/FEL , Ford L-9000 tandem w/ prentice TS-33 loader, Nyle L200M, Cook's 4" board edger, John Deere 310se backhoe w/ forks

LOGDOG

Kansas,

   I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles. Reading your account was like De Ja Vu for me ... right down tothe verbatum responses from Herman. My cutting head also jumped off the track. Had I not been at a customer's site where they had a great big Cat front-end loader to help me lift the carriage back on the track I would have been sunk. You having the machine know that the cutting head must way near 2000 pounds or better.

   My turner had problems too. It was bragged on heavily for it's strength but then when I put a 36" diameter log on there and it wouldn't turn it, they ended up gearing it down and mounting this big hydraulic motor way down low beneath the turner on this apparatus that literally was so low it wouldn't clear the curb at the gas station on the way home and caught and bent. Pour design for a portable mill that is supposed to be able to go offroad and saw in the conditions that we all know exist in our business.

   I also didn't like needing a 12 foot step ladder too get up in the air and pour diesel fuel into the tank way up high. Another pour design.

   You and I could go on for a long time I'msure highlighting things that could be done better. I admit there are a couple things I could have done better too - now that I look back at it.

   First, there's a principal that my dad lived by and still does. That is, "You get what you pay for." I probably should have raised an eyebrow at the company's ability to deliver on this notion of more for less. Time virtually always proves the "get what you pay for" rule to be true. Unescapeable if you will.

   Also, there were little things I noticed - but chose to look past. The snickers, the outright admission that they do not warranty their mills and that the only warranty the customer has is from the individual parts manufacturer. Can you imagine buying a brand new Ford, Chevrolet or Dodge pickup ...top of the line model ... and being told it has no warranty except that supplied by the individual manufacturers of parts? So you need to run here when this goes wrong, and run there when that goes wrong ...call here ...google search there. Talk about wear a guy out.

   They also seemed proud that they had things made in China. Last time I checked that wasn't something to brag on here in the U.S.

   I had also asked Herman about his business continuation plans as he is retirement age and he made a comment about when he was ready to retire they could just shut the whole thing down and sell it off. I have to admit that was scary. I've seen companies like FasTrack and WoodLand sawmills go out of business only to see there owners today looking for help online in the forums to solve their problems because there is no representation from a factory. The factory is gone. Thus the re-sale on their mills plummet because of them being obsolete. Yes, mill can be patched and things can be fabricated at local shops. We need to remember though that the average guy that goes out and buys a portable mill doesn't want this hassle and in a lot of cases may not be mechanically minded enough to go down that road. It's food for thought. Businesses that try to do things for less than they should usually end up doing two things - creating an inferior product and in the long run, going broke because of a lack of profit and thus going out of business. It's food for thought.

   The trouble is we get so excited about the "idea" and we "want" this to be possible so much that we waive off on the little signals. I mean I literally watched welds brake on my log turner the day of picking my new mill up at their factory. But by that time I had waited for my mill so long, was already 3 weeks late for custom sawing customers that had been waiting I was in a corner. In the end I lost those custom jobs anyway because I sent the mill back.

   So you can see, things will do what they will do eventually. How is that for profound? True though. The signs are almost always there if you look hard enough and are honest with yourself.

   Don't be fooled by the notion that because a mill has steel an inch thick that it is impervious to damage and can withstand anything. If the design is not right, those welds will break. Bearings and motors burn up if you ask them to do things that they're not equipped to do.

   One of the other signals I ignored was that LogMaster as a company does not even own one of their own mills. Other manufacturers like WoodMizer,Cooks,Baker,Peterson, etc always have a mill of their own at the shop that is run pretty much on a continuous basis both for profit and for the purpose of field testing and working out bugs. If you ask me, the bugs should be worked out by a companies Research and Development department  and not the customer.

   In the meantime, Kansas ...what size blades do you run? Are they the 2" wide, 1" tooth spacing, 19'1" long? I've got $2,500.00 worth of blades here sitting I can't use. I'd be happy recovering a small fraction of the investment. Maybe enough to buy me a new Husquavarna 395? If you can use them great if not that's cool. Someone will get a great deal as a result of a mistake I made. And I'm ok with that.  :)

LOGDOG

Todd

Wow! I this "there but for the grace of God go I" feeling.
Logdog..welcome aboard!

I was seriously looking at the logMaster this time last year when i was ready to order a mill.  If it wasn't for the fact that I never got to see one run I probably would have an LM5 right now. (It was that, a Woodmizer LT70, or the Baker 3667 ) I've had some problems with the Baker, but I will challenge anyone to get better service than i've received.  Being less than mechanically inclined, the problems you guys have had would have driven me insane!

Also,Logdog;  give us a full review of that Peterson when you get it. i've talked to the guys down under a bunch and if I keep having to pass on 50" logs I may have to get one of them too!
Todd

Making somthing idiot-proof only leads to the creation of bigger idiots!

LOGDOG

Testing 1,2 ....Sent a reply back to this thread about an hour ago and I don't know where it went.

LOGDOG

Well that reply went through immediately. I guess I did soemthing wrong on the other one.

Hey Todd, thanks for the welcome... good to meet you as well. Baker makes a nice looking mill. They seem like a good solid, "be around tomorrow" kind of company. Be glad for the mill you have in this case.  ;) I'll leave it at that.  :)

As to the Peterson, I've actually already got it. I've had it since late 2004. I have the Automatic Swing Blade Mill, 10" model, set up to cut 35' long. It's really been an excellent performing machine. Had a couple of glitches yes (not huge), but the Petersons are excellent people and stood behind me 110%. They totally picked up the cost of parts and shipping when needed. There's no doubt that had I been in close proximity they'd have been right here fixing it too. Really good people ...can't say enough. Plus their Rep here in the States - Craig Blake- known to the forum here as Captain is a super guy. Very talented and knowledgeable and personable too. He and his wife are super hard working and seem to go at life with everything they got. Really commendable. Check his website out if you haven't already. It  is: www.swingmills.com. Look down and to the left on your screen and click on TimberPro and it should take you right there.

The mill cuts excellent flat lumber. You can literally see the difference now when my lumber is stickered and stacked next to someone elses lumber on sticks. I've got it dialed in and that repeator switch they've got on their lets me hit the mark every time. Nice flat, square lumber. And I never get tired of seeing that vertical grain come off the mill when I decide to take it that way. I'm getting ready to quartersaw some Sycamore within the next week or so. The log are about 36" so I should be able to get some nice wide vertical grain boards with lots of fleck and figure in them. I'll be sure to post some pics out here. I can't believe how big this site is and how diverse. Can't believe I didn't register sooner. Even my wife digs the forum ...now that's saying something! ;)

Look forward to seeing you around Todd. Hey by the way, what size band are you using?

LOGDOG

Todd

1 1/2"...I couldn't see justifying the added cost of the 2" for cutting mostly pallet lumber out of urban trees;  too many nails and a little wandering won't hurt anything.  (I cut street trees almost exclusively; somtimes I increase utilization of a valuable urban resource, and somtimes I create expensive scrap metal strips with teeth on them ;D)
Making somthing idiot-proof only leads to the creation of bigger idiots!

tcsmpsi

Well, I'll be DanG. 

Now, who do you think gave me a call yesterday afternoon, right out of the blue, all on his own.

None other than ol' Herman, himself.  He assured me that, indeed, the 21st my mill would be ready. 

Psychic 'phenomenon'? 

Nontheless, I find it a positive gesture.
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Fla._Deadheader


With all the exposure this place gets, via the Internet, Don'tcha suppose ole "Herman" might just be a guest and is trying to cover his butt ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

tcsmpsi

\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

LOGDOG

Yep, whatever works. Hey just in case ...my offer on the blades is open to him too. He can buy them and resell them at a profit. No hard feelings.  :)

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