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Modification of Wood-Mizer LT15 side support for small diameter logs?

Started by Bill E, July 05, 2006, 06:48:43 PM

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Bill E

Hello,

I just brought a LT15 home last week.  Am using it initially to salvage dead wild cheery ranging down to 4" diameter.  Figure I can get some turning blanks out of the small ones, anyhow.

The side supports on the LT15 make it difficult to secure the log and still clear the supports with the blade.  This is because they have an upward point on the outside of the support (picture at http://www.woodmizer.com/en/sawmills/manual/LT15/index.aspx ). 

With the supports set low enough to clear the blade, there isnt much of the inside surface of the support in contact with the log.  Upon entering the log with the blade, the log tends to rotate from the force of the blade.  (Have made some very interesting spiral cuts so far  :-\ )

Seems to me the fix is to hacksaw the tops of the side supports square.   I assume there is some good reason why the supports were designed the with the point on the outside, but I sure can't figure out what they are.

Would appreciate any thoughts on this.

Thanks,

Bill


Part_Timer

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the mill.

If you keep sawing long enough you'll saw them off with the mill.  It happens to all of us sooner or later.

Get ahold of qweaver he's running an LT15 and he might have a fix for ya.

Tom
Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

Warren

Bill,

The tops of the log stops are angled that way so that when you "roll" a larger log on the mill the log doesn't climb the back stops and go off the back side.  I sawed a bunch of small cedar logs a few weeks ago.  For sawing small stuff, I've thought about fab'ing some kind of sleeve that would fit over the back stops with the angle running the opposite direction.  It would also help with edging the smaller boards on the mill.   But, haven't got there yet.  If you come up with something, please share a picture.  And Enjoy !

Warren
LT40SHD42, Case 1845C,  Baker Edger ...  And still not near enough time in the day ...

Tom

Sawmills have limitations.  Most who saw with a bandmill will try not to mess with anything less than a 9 inch top.   Smaller stuff can be sawed but you will probably have to design a clamping devise other than offered with the mill.

Something to consider is that those small logs are made up of what is called "immature, or adolesent" wood.   This is the first 3 to 6 ring, usually, that is layed down beyond the pith. (the growing tip)

This wood is not considered to be of high quality and those who produce premium lumber will often discard that section of the board.  Or, at least find a different market.   Considering this,  it may not be in your best interest to spend too much time with your "small log" project. :)

Bill E

Thanks for the welcomes and advice, Tom, Tom and Warren.

The sleeve idea sounds good and I'll think on how I could do it.  Forwarded the message to qweaver, also.

Thanks for the information on the pith too.  I just hate to burn these and at least want to cut into them in case there's any figure or spalt.

One of the Wood-mizer staff in Portland mentioned an owner who set up some kind of jig so he could mill pen blanks on his 15.  Will try to track it down.

Bill


Qweaver

Hi Bill,
The purpose of the angle on the standards is to allow you to turn a log after you have made the first two cuts.  If the top of the standards were straight, the flat would catch on the 90deg edge and would be very hard to rotate.
I bought my saw used and two sets of homemade clamp-on stops came with the saw (one 3.5" tall and one 5" tall).  I mainly use them to resaw 2x4s and such but they work well for small logs as well.
I'll send you a picture of them if you like, but unless you can fabricate these or get them built...I don't have any other clues for you.

You might try clamping a 3x3 or 4x4 to the bed and then clamping the log against those.  A little fiddley but ya do what ya gotta do.
Good luck with your saw, they can be a lot of fun.

Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Bill E

Thanks, Quinton.  A picture of your clamps would be helpful.

I guess  another approach would be to have several of the stock side supports for large logs and several squared off ones (by modifying the stock supports) to use with small logs.   They are easy to switch in and out on the newer version of the mill anyhow. 

Bill

jkj

Quote from: Qweaver on July 05, 2006, 10:20:22 PM
You might try clamping a 3x3 or 4x4 to the bed and then clamping the log against those.

I did something like that to let me cut very short log sections on my LT-15 (for woodturning blanks).   This is for sections too short to rest on the bed, but I think the same method would work for a small diameter log.   I took two pieces of 2x lumber and fastened them together with lag screws to form a L shape that I clamp to the bed with C-clamps.  I rest this against the tab stops and use the built-in log clamps to hold the log securely against the upright part of the L.  I cut right through that part of the L as needed.  (I put the lag screws in horizontally so there is no danger of cutting into one!)

Also, a recommendation I got from the a woodturning forum for sawing pieces that are hard to secure was to mount them directly to a flat board with wood screws through the bottom, then clamp the board to the mill.  I haven't tried this since the fixture above works so well for me.

Regardless of the method, you probably only need to make one cut on the top before you can turn the log 180deg and lower the stops.

JKJ
LT-15 for farm and fun

Minnesota_boy

Try putting 2 logs on at once and sawing both together.  They need to be nearly the same size to minimize the waste but they hold real well that way.  The force that makes a log try to rotate causing you to "spiral cut" it causes the two logs to oppose each other and they cannot rotate then.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Kevin

I haven't milled anything too small on my LT-15 but a 2x2 or slightly larger clamped to the mill so that the logs can be pushed up against it as a fence would probably work.


Camp Run Farm

Probably the best use for small logs is firewood, I have been selling a ton of it.  It sure beats messing around with little sticks..

LOGDOG

Hi Bill,

   I have a great idea for you. It'll save you lots of time and I think it'll work excellent for what you're trying to do. I happen to have the same log deck as yourself ...the only dffierence is I use mine with a Peterson SwingBlade mill. I'd recommend that you purchase a set or two of Petersons new LogDog's. In actuality, one set will do.

   Here's how you'll use them. Where your back supports are now ...fold those all the way down. Put the square edge of the Peterson LogDog's towards your mills log supports with the sharp point towards your clamp. Follow me? Bump the back of the dogs against those little tabs that stick up on your deck 3/4" inch high. You may need to put a small piece of 2x4 along side of your bed rail to gains thickness as the Peterson log dog is made for a little wider rail. That's easy enough though. Then just screw them down tight. They should be aligned because they're bumping your little stops on the mill bed.

   Now lay your small log in there and move your clamp (s) in and try to stay low, below the center point of the log if you can. When you throw your clamp lever over it should cinch that log tight into the Peterson LogDog's and let you saw what you want.

   Pesonally, I'd take the slab off the top ...then roll the log- flatside down and lower your WoodMizer clamp all the way down so it just grabs the bottom edge of the log. Then take the other slab off.  You could saw right down through it then or take the Peterson LogDogs out with the turn of a handle and flip the WoodMizer supports up now that you have a flat surface for them to lay against. When you have the 3rd slab off and you have 3 square corners on that cant you're home free and can just use those nubs on your log deck and the clamp. I'm ordering some and I'll send you some pics of me using them if you like.  ;D

Holler with questions.

LOGDOG

jkj

Quote from: LOGDOG on July 16, 2006, 04:04:48 PM
...purchase a set or two of Petersons new LogDog's.

Are you referring to what they list as "EZ Dogs"?
Peterson EZ Dogs

JKJ
LT-15 for farm and fun

LOGDOG

Yep JKJ ...those are the ones. They're really not that expensive either. What's nice too is you can put them on any rail and move them from one rail to another if the length of your log changes. I've ordered 3 sets for myself today. If I get mine first I'lll send you pictures. If you get some first you send pics first.

LOGDOG

Bill E

Sorry to be slow in following up on your excellent idea, Logdog. 

I've been experimenting with different set ups suggested and was making some progress.  But overconfidnce set in and I ended up sawing into one of the side supports  :o (despite Tom's earlier warning).

The EZ Dogs look like the best way to go.  Here is the url for others who might be interested: http://www.petersonsawmills.com/press_releases_ezdogs.htm

Thanks again to all,
Bill

LOGDOG

Well Bill ...it's official... you're now a Pro. They saw sawing into one of your dogs is the initiation to becoming a full blown sawyer.

I think you'll like those EZDogs ...I've got mine on order. Have you ordered yours yet? You may want to ...they were backordered when I called mine in. Hope you'll send us some pictures of them in use when you get them. Best of luck.  :)

LOGDOG

Bill E

Logdog and all,

Looks like the way to go is to order two sets of two which I will do.

So far the best improvised method I've come up with is shown in the first photo below.  I placed a two by two to the bed next to the small dogs and clamped in vertically to the bed at the far end so it can't rotate.  The nestled the one foot or so piece of wood between the 2X2 and a 1x3 next to the standard W-M clamp.  The W-M clamp holds the work tightly against the corner of the 2x2. 

(I think I'll carve this piece of wood instead of sawing it, but wanted to see if I could set it up.)

Sure the EZDogs will work better.

Bill

PS Second picture is a maple crotch my son brought home from a job site.  The arborist didnt cut it well for turning, but its pretty.







Captain

No need for a backorder, we've got plenty in stock here in the 'States.

www.swingmills.com

Currently working through the pricing with NZ, however.  That should be ironed out by tomorrow.

Captain

Bill E

Hello Captain,

Havent been able to find the EZ Dogs at www.swingmills.com

Would be helpful to have them available in the states.  Price from New Zealand is $81 US per pair plus shipping of $66 for one pair and $88 for two pair.

Thanks,
Bill

LOGDOG

Bill,

   I just got my EZ Dogs. THEY'RE AWESOME!!! I'm in the process of setting my mill up on a new site here at my place but when I've got things ready I'll take some pics and post for you and anyone else interested in seeing them. I know for a fact that these EZ Dogs are going to make life easier in a lot of ways. Looking forward to cinching up the first log with them! Stay tuned for pics.

LOGDOG

Max sawdust

Logdog,
Look forward to the pics..  Sounds like a good idea ;)
Max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

LOGDOG

Thanks Max ... Hey ... what did you decide about the firewood thing and shipping to other areas? I think this year is going to be a great year for firewood sales. Fuel prices should be sky high.   :'(

LOGDOG

Max sawdust

Going to hit up Door County with a little "premium" white birch and red oak..  As a test market.. Still splitting and drying next year is the year to kick it in full gear;D
Gosh I need a firewood processor :o 
First gotta find a good market..
max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

Bill E

Came up with a clamping set up for holding a short piece of wood in my mill.  Am posting it in case anyone else is interested.



The red pipe clamps are attached to separate two by fours that are long enough to span two crosspieces of the track.  For broader pieces of wood I spread the clamps further apart by putting a third two by four in between the ones the clamps are mounted on.

The two by fours are held to the mill with the regular Wood Mizer clamp.

I'm using it mostly to cut firewood pieces I got from a neighbor.  Have found some chunks of spalted maple and alder.

Bill


Robert Long

Thanks Guys!!!!!!

I too am now looking into these log-dogs.......sounds like the right thing for those hard to cut logs and small pieces...thanks.

Robert

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