Who likes to pull stumps? What's your method?

[Cherry Grower]

I just stumbled on this forum a few days ago and I have to say I like it a lot and you folks have posted great topics and discussions.  I'm hoping to get a little advice from you wise people.

I have 20 acres that is wooded that I need to have cleared and stumps removed so I can put in another block of tart cherry trees.  My plan is to sell the timber through a forester friend of mine then remove the stumps myself and do the land leveling as well.

My question has to do with equipment to remove the stumps.  It seems like most people prefer an excavator with a thumb for stump removal.  Some friends of mine in the next county use a Cat D8 and a front end loader.  They say some of the stumps still don't come out that easy.  I don't think they have a ripper on the Cat. 

I'll probably end up renting an excavator but someone suggested looking into buying a large 4wd tractor (something with 200 to 400 hp like a Stieger or a Versitile with a 900 cubic inch Cummins or so and duals all the way around) and mounting a blade on the front and a ripper on the 3 point hitch.  Lots of HP for little $.  This sounded appealing but I fear it may not be the optimal machine for stump removal. 

Could I get some opinions on stump removal?  I'm curious how affective rippers are on dozers?  Would a ripper work on a large tractor?  What size excavator would I need?

The woods have Oak, Maple, Ash, Walnut, Beech.  Most are 12 to 18" in diameter with some in the 20" plus range. 

[Ron Scott]

Any of the equipment that you mentioned should work well if you are skilled in its operation for stump clearing. We usually have a land clearing contractor such as Elmer's do the work since they have all the equipment that might be needed and can do the clearing and leveling quickly.

[thurlow]

Forget the farm tractor...............have had a front mounted blade on a (somewhat) smaller farm tractor for almost 40 years.  Works fine to push soil or the occasional SMALL (6 or 8 inch, depending on species) tree, but they're not designed for the shock of pushing stumps.  My opinion only, of course;  go with the trackhoe or dozer.

[getoverit]

If leveling the land afterwards is one of your considerations, the D-8 is the way to go.

One of our members that rarely frequents the forum makes a living at stump removal (Hercules). I have seen his operation at work with a D-8, and he removes huge fat lighter stumps with ease with a Bulldozer. Having a blade to level the land afterwards would be a BIG plus.

[Reddog]

A Dozer is nice for your needs because you will be able to level things off as you go. But what you need is a not a ripper on the back. A root blade/rake on the front works best. It has big tines sticking down below the blade to pull the roots to the surface. You go by the stump on one side missing it as you go by. This cuts/pulls the roots on that side. Then go straight at the sump from the side you just cut. It will lift and roll it out. D6 is the smallest I would look at. The bigger the faster. Just remember sand groung is hard on dozer tracks.

[David_c]

Excavator is the best quickest way.

[Ed_K]

 If your just replanting to fruit trees, look into a stump grinder mounted on a excavator. It'll be just as fast and less mess to clean up and dispose of.

[Ironwood]

I have used a 8000# trackhoe rental to knock over trees here. 12-18" dbh. It is slow with this size machine but depending on the acreage it may be an option. I dug all around and then left the top of the tree intact to help with the pushing over. Get her rocking and over they go. As I recall I could take out 10-20 in a week end.

Reid

[wiam]

To pull that size hardwood stumps I would want a pretty good size excavator.  You could ruin a lot of wood by pushing them over.  I have pulled them with a 25 ton Fiat

Will

[Ironwood]

I DUNNO, They fell slowly and in a controlled manner. I then cut off the tops. It worked for me. I had dug extensively under and around hte root ball, perhaps that helped. 20 acres is alot, it does sound like a dozer would work well. I would think about grinding, by the time you dig and level you may end up with a mess in terms of topsoil "upset", meaning mixing bedrock and topsoil. It just depends on your local soil / rock condition. If you could grind them subsurface and then brush hog for a couple of years you may be able to kill the roots and keep the topsoil intact. ?????

                   . Reid

[theonlybull]

an excivator is definatly the fastest, but an expensive option....     our 580 ('70's vintage) has no trouble with those size stumps,  but it's not as fast as an excivator.

personally,  i'd rent a dozor, an excivator, and a backhoe....  each for a day or two at a time.  this would let you see what works the best for you.  then start lookin for a machine that you can afford.    a backhoe, would most likely be able to be sold for close to what you paid for it.  they tend to resale decient, because they have no tracks and undercarriage to wear out.

[wiam]

Reid,  after I reread your original post I agree that it will work if you dig around them first.  I have talked to big mills that could not see it in the log until it was sawed that trees were just pushed over and there was damage.  My first choice still would be to dig stumps with a large excavator.

Will

[Cherry Grower]

Thanks for the thoughts.  Just to clarify, the trees will be gone and the stumps need to be out of the ground.  Supposedly, some of the hardwood varieties promote a fungus in tart cherry trees called Armalaria so the roots need to be gone.  Learned this the hard way on an other parcel where we buried the few stumps we removed and the cherries died out above the stumps.

I agree that a blade (preferably a six way) would be VERY handy to level as well as remove stumps.  The parcel is on a bit of a slope so the orchard rows need to be terraced.  A six way blade makes quick work of terracing.  Problem is I'm having a hard time locating a dozer that big with more then a straight blade.

Reddog, sounds like you may know something about the land in my area.  Six inches of topsoil on sand dunes.  I do know about tracks and sand.  Had an ancient Cat Trackscavator, I believe they called it, that we had to replace some of the rollers.  Nasty repair work.

I'm thinking that there is no one perfect machine for the entire task.  My current thinking is renting an excavator for all the big stumps and then buying a large tractor with a blade for the leveling and root raking.  I have other tasks that a 200 hp tractor could do much easier then the 35 to 40 hp orchard tractors I already have.

[beenthere]

Sure going to be hard to remove all the roots that might harbor the Armalaria (Armillaria), seems to me. At least not without sifting all the soil and even then, hairline roots will remain.
This quote was found about Armalaria

""Tree disease a threat to South East forestry plantations - David Claughton
We seem to be inundated with disease threats at the moment and concern is now being expressed about a tree disease that could have an impact on blue gum plantations. The disease, Armalaria, has been around for a long time, but seems to be on the increase around the South East. Retired Landscape Gardener Rex Copeland has seen a lot of trees dying lately and he puts it down to Aramalaria. It's a fungal disease that attacks the roots, eventually ring barking the tree and causing it to die off within a few days and the centre for forest technology in Victoria has been looking into it. Rex Copeland says it could be like mad cow disease in England because in the United States a few years ago they lost thousands of hectares of trees, a lot of it native bushland growth but it still spread very quickly. Forest pathologist from the Centre for Forestry Technology, Ian Smith says there's no treatment and you have to dig the tree and its root system out completely to get rid of the disease. He also suggests filling in the hole with a lot of organic matter to encourage other bacteria to compete with the Armalaria.
Ian Smith: Forest pathologist from the Centre for Forestry Technology
Rex Copeland: Retired Landscape Gardener ""

This site discusses  Armillaria Root Rot

[Engineer]

I pulled a few larger stumps recently using an older John Deere 490 excavator, and I had a hard time.  Partly because sugar maple has a very fine and dense root system, and partly because of clay soil.    In sandy soil, I'd lean toward the biggest dozer I could find, something in the D-8/D-9 class, with a root rake blade.  You'll get your roots out and level off the site pretty well.  The excavator would probably be slightly better at getting the stumps out, but won't help much for leveling.

[David_c]

You dont want a 6 way blade for pulling stumps. Straight blade is only way to go for that. The angle blades are for grading. I think best bet is excavator for pulling stumps. Then a dozer with root rake for getting roots then take root rake off for grading.

[logger]

My neighbor uses a Kobelco sk160lc with a thumb to rip out stumps and push over trees.  I have seen him push over a 3ft locust with no problem. :D 8)

[Reddog]

Are you looking to rent or buy? If rent check with AIS and Michigan Cat. Tell them what you want to rent and have them find it. Also check with some of the larger construction companys. Maybe they are slow and need to work a dozer and excavator together.  Just a question, what do you do with all the stumps and roots?
I thought you were in the blow sand area :D Just spent a weekend running a trencher throught the woods by Fife lake for Oak wilt. All sand to.

[Nailhead]

For the size job your talking about and the size of the trees, I think a trackhoe with thumb is the only way to go. You can always bring a dozer in after you burn or haul away the stumps and brush. A 40,000# machine or larger is what you need. I have cleared quite a bit with my 225 Cat.(52,000#) and I feel it's the only way to go.
Good Luck, NH

[Cherry Grower]

Thanks again for all the feedback gentlemen, your comments are much appreciated.

beenthere – I agree.  Some of the extension agents in Michigan predict doom and gloom with Armalaria, I'm not quite convinced yet.  I've recently switched back to a Copper compound for a regular fungicide which is what the old timers used back in the day after the land was originally cleared.  Don't know if Armalaria was around then but I can say that Copper did take care of the mushrooms growing from the cherry trees above the stumps we buried.  Time will tell but I guess but my theory is that regular Copper applications may inhibit Armalaria in the long run.  I'm not a scientist, I just watch the orchards.  I'll check out your lead with the Centre for Forestry Technology.

David_c – I figured as much with the six way blades.  None of the large machines I've looked at have them which makes sense that they are not suitable for pushing big time.

Reddog – don't think I want to invest in an excavator so rental will probably be the ticket.  However, my cousin just gave me a name of a retired guy in our county that has just recently bought some mega earth moving equipment including a huge excavator with a thumb.  Sounds like his fees are VERY reasonable. 

For stump removal, my choice will be at least a Cat D8 or equivalent, or a big enough excavator.  Please help me with the excavator choices as I know nothing about them.  When you speak of a 40,000# machine, is this it's own weight?  What is the least amount of HP I'll want?  Anything significant about the hydraulic capacities I should be aware of?

Thanks again, you guys are great!

[scsmith42]

Cherrygrower - welcome to the forum.

I have some personal experience in this area, having de-stumped a large portion of my farm.  I use a Cat D8 with a single shank ripper (5' depth) and a root rake attachment to the blade.

As David_C posted, a 6 way blade is too light (and you'll severely wear it) - forget it for stump removal.  You need a straight blade with tilt.

My system works well for me in removing large oak and pine stumps (24" - 36").  They are much easier to remove if you let them rot in the ground for a year or two.  A dozer was both a more practical and economical choice for me, versus the excavator (I purchased instead of renting).  The ripper and root rake work well for clearing pasture land.

Large excavators also work well.  You can probably destump 5 acres a day depending on how large (and how old) the stumps are, as well as the type of root system and your soil type, and your ability to stay focused on the task at hand.  A hydraulic thumb is the way to go. 

Forget using any tractor with tires - you simply can't get the leverage or traction.

For occasional, small stumps, I will use my backhoe with a cribbing bucket (specialized railroad bucket).  Also, if I just need to remove one standing tree, I'll use the backhoe to dig out the roots, and then push the tree over- using the weight of the top of the tree to remove the stump.  For the odd tree in the yard, this saves me wear and tear on my landscaping versus the D8.

I think that in your situation, my first choice would be to rent a large excavator, and my second would be to use a D8 size machine with ripper / root rake.  Both will do the job.

A 40K to 50K excavator (by weight) would be appropriate.  Don't get a lightweight one.

Good luck.  Scott

[bitternut]

Cherrygrower what you need to do is leave that woods as it is. It takes lots of years to establish a woodlot like you have described. Seems a shame to destroy it when all you have to do is come to the south shore of Lake Ontario in Niagara and Orleans County. There is plenty of abandoned farms along the lakeshore that used to produce cherries and other fruit.

[ScottAR]

Little excavator/ crane history.   Excavators evolved from cranes which are classed by weight.  So Excavators are too.  Back in the day.  a 20 ton class excavator was about as small as was common.  Then in the mid eighties in my area at least, smaller ones became more common. 

Now they make em small enough one feels the need to look for a quarter slot to start em up.   :D :D