In over my head. Lift shot on the tractor.

brdmkr · June 11, 2006, 09:57:12 PM

I suppose all things mechanical have the right to tear up. I went over to hook up the bush hog for a little work later this week. The lift was dead as a hammer on the old Ford :'(. I suppose I'll be looking for a tractor mechanic tomorrow. If I remember correctly, the concensus is the hydraulics on the Ford 4600 can be pretty tough to repair. I checked hydro fluid and it was OK. Anything else I should consider before I start calling mechanics?

DanG · June 11, 2006, 10:38:05 PM

Did ya lose my phone number, Mike? ??? :

brdmkr · June 11, 2006, 11:11:33 PM

I actually considered giving you a call, but I figured you would be busy working on your house. You have any ideas?

UNCLEBUCK · June 12, 2006, 12:28:06 AM

If the lift went dead after hooking up to your implement I would recheck your couplers , have had it happen several times where hyd couplings were pulled out just a 1/8"and no hydraulics . I have a 4500 and it has a seperate hydraulic reservoir from the power reversing tranny so I wont be much help on a 4600 but I have never had a hydaulic pump on anything just instantly quit .

Qweaver · June 12, 2006, 06:54:48 AM

When I bought my old Ford 1910 the 3 point hitch arms would not work...changed the hydraulic oil filter and it worked fine from then on.

Quinton

brdmkr · June 12, 2006, 06:43:31 PM

I have an update. I drained the hydro fluid. It appeared to be about half water

I don't have any idea how that much water could have gotten in there. I figure I may have some rust clogging some valves. I was unable to refill with fluid as the filter was the wrong size and the parts store was closed for the day. I love obstacles.

scsmith42 · June 12, 2006, 10:35:44 PM

Be sure to change the filter too.

brdmkr · June 12, 2006, 10:57:20 PM

I will! The filter was full of water and sludge as well. I would have changed it all today, but the filter I was sold was the wrong filter. Hopefully, I'll be able to get the correct filter tomorrow.

woodbowl · June 12, 2006, 11:19:29 PM

Mike, save that old ickey, sludgy hydraulic fluid in a bucket and put a lid on it.

Check on it in about 6 - 10 months or so. You'll have some brand new fluid and some brand new water too. ;)

brdmkr · June 13, 2006, 11:24:17 AM

I'll be happy to save it for you if you want it, but I'd just as soon not use it again. I am hopeful that I can get this thing back in shape without spending an arm and a leg.

I posted on ytmag and got several tips. Trouble is that everything dealing with the lift on this tractor is internal except the levers. I really don't want to tear into it. What's more, I know that I'm not qualified to get into the innards. If the fluid change and a manual working of the lift doesn't do the trick, I'll be seeking professional assistance.

woodbowl · June 13, 2006, 03:29:09 PM

Quote from: brdmkr on June 13, 2006, 11:24:17 AM
I'll be happy to save it for you if you want it, but I'd just as soon not use it again.

OK, save it for me and I'll see you around Moultrie 2006.

Your gona' want to keep it though. It looks bad right now I know, like a two week old milk shake. The slimey mess is just water, hyd fluid and air. It will seperate in time and be clean as a whistle.

I'm gona' go ahead and say that your lift will be fine after changing the fluid, unless the water has been in long enough to start rusting things.

Get some new boots for the gear shift levers. That's where the rain water comes in at. If you can't park it under a shed, cover them up with a bucket or tarp. ;)

brdmkr · June 13, 2006, 04:30:51 PM

Quote from: woodbowl on June 13, 2006, 03:29:09 PM
Get some new boots for the gear shift levers. That's where the rain water comes in at. If you can't park it under a shed, cover them up with a bucket or tarp. ;)

Thanks for the tip. I'll watch the hydro fluid in the bucket. I may feel good about it some day, but not any time soon!

UNCLEBUCK · June 13, 2006, 07:06:53 PM

Is this 4600 ford a hydro ? Or does it have a manual transmission with the power reverse and a torque converter? Reason I am asking is that the word hydro keeps coming up , The tranny with the torque converter has its own seperate filter and reservoir and the hydraulic system has its own filter and reservoir as well . Just something I am trying to help solve the mystery with .

When you lost your hydraulics did you also lose your ability to drive forward and backwards or does that still work?

brdmkr · June 13, 2006, 08:10:05 PM

UB,

I can go forward and backwards. It is the lift only that is gone.

I just finished refilling the fluid and replacing the filter and still nothing. I raised the lift manually and dropped it a copule of times (someone suggested that in a PM). Still, nothing. I noticed that the draft control lever is absolutely stuck. It has never worked as it should in fact, it has more or less always just worked much like the lift lever. However, if you leave it in the bottom position, the lift lever works. If you leave the lift lever in the bottom position, the draft lever works the lift. Now, the draft lever is 'locked' in the bottom position.

Sad thing is there is just nothing to do with this lift that is external. I have a wet hookup, but nothing to hook it to; thus, I don't even have any way to see if the pump is working. Ideas anyone? Remember, if you put all I know about tractors in a cup, you'd still have room for about half a cup of coffee.

woodbowl · June 13, 2006, 08:26:19 PM

Quote from: brdmkr on June 13, 2006, 08:10:05 PM
It has never worked as it should in fact, it has more or less always just worked much like the lift lever.

How long is that? Trying to get an idea of how long water may have been in it.

Is the new hyd fluid a little bit icky from the residue inside the case? I'm wondering if running it a while and trying the controls over a period of time may start to free things up.

Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a hyd fluid additive for such things as this?

scsmith42 · June 13, 2006, 09:04:54 PM

If it were me I'd drive it around for an hour or so with the lift lever in the middle of the range and see if that frees things up.

Also, re the draft lever, my tractors do the same - ie if I lift the draft lever all the way up the lift goes up.

If the lever is stuck, sounds like something is stuck inside.

brdmkr · June 13, 2006, 10:47:47 PM

WB, the draft lever has been that way since I have owned the tractor. There is a hydraulic cylinder that attaches above the top link. It was my understanding that the draft control was supposed to act on this cylinder. It never has. However, the draft lever has always moved, but a little stiffer than the lift. Now however, it will not move at all. I really don't know if the new fluid is icky or not. To be honest, I can't see how it could be clear.

WB and SC, lets say I do run this thing for an hour or so with the lift lever in the half-way position. If the pump is working, is there a chance that this would further damage anything? At this point, I am willing to try anything. I have some leads on a couple of decent mechanics, but it will really be a hassle just for me to get the tractor to them. Not to mention the $$$$$. Any simple things to try before I go see them are greatly appreciated.

UNCLEBUCK · June 13, 2006, 10:53:26 PM

I know who can help you with this ! charles ya know big C , the roofing contractor from Mississippi on here, he knows the answer as he had major draft control hydraulic trouble and did a quick one day repair on his dads ford .

getoverit · June 13, 2006, 11:11:31 PM

The draft control on our Ford 3000 never has worked right either. When you lift the arms with a load on them, they do fine to a certain point, then the lift comes all the way up.. no way to stop it. when you just touch the control in the down position with a load on it, it goes all the way to the bottom. I have kinda learned how to live with it.

Back in the mid 70's, we broke the tractor in half and replaced just about everything that had anything to do with the hydraulics. It didnt make a bit of difference... still acted the same. Luckily, my dad was a machinist and made a tool to re-align the double clutches with the splined shaft when we put it all back together (we changed the clutches while we had it apart). This is definitely a job I wouldnt reccomend for the average shade tree mechanic.

UNCLEBUCK · June 13, 2006, 11:12:18 PM

I never seen a 4600 ford but if I am thinking right , is it possible this tractor has a engage and disengage lever for the pump like some tractors have?

Thats it for me as I have run out of maybe's , sounds like problem is under the seat and hopefully your pump was able to catch a prime and pick up the new hydraulic oil . Good luck and I bet your trouble is still something simple because its very odd for a pump to instantly quit .

getoverit · June 13, 2006, 11:13:59 PM

ok... why is it changing the word "t h e" to "da"???

;D

brdmkr · June 13, 2006, 11:37:21 PM

Me thinks the yoopers be at it again!

onionman · June 13, 2006, 11:47:49 PM

Do you have a front end loader on the tractor ?

Onion

UNCLEBUCK · June 13, 2006, 11:58:37 PM

Take the seat off ,take the cover below off, rev up your motor until the hydraulic oil comes shooting out , guessing your hydraulic pump has lost its prime . Final answer , ???

scsmith42 · June 14, 2006, 05:36:50 AM

As far as running it for a while to see if this corrects the problem, it seems to me that something is either stuck (due to the water in the oil), or broken. If it's the former, then running it with some pressure and vibration may cause it to become unstuck, and the new fluid will then have a chance to clean out some sludge.

If the pump has lost it's prime due to sludge buildup, then running it wouldn't be good...

One thing that you can try is to blow some compressed air through the inlet and outlets on the filter. If there is a sludge blockage somewhere, this could help clear things up.

Many times I have acted precipitously to take something old or sludgy apart, only to discover that had I been more patient things would have worked out.

brdmkr · June 14, 2006, 10:34:00 AM

UB and SC

Both comments sound like something I can do. I'll see about blowing air in through the filter inlet and outlet and I'll take the cover off under the seat (if I can; I can't remember if I even have access there). I have run the tractor for maybe 10 minutes trying to get the lift to work. If the pump has somehow lost its prime, have I already caused damage?

brdmkr · June 15, 2006, 08:40:25 PM

The tractor is in the hands of a pro. Thanks for all of your help, but without a repair manual and more time than I have, I feel like I have done about all I coud do. Again, thanks for all the advice.

UNCLEBUCK · June 15, 2006, 10:21:29 PM

Yep , without the shop manual it is easy to get lost in some of that stuff . Well you will appreciate your tractor that much more when it comes home .Fords are a tough tractor and economical to run