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Maasdam Rope Puller

Started by rangerbob, June 08, 2006, 11:54:24 PM

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rangerbob

I'm looking at picking one of these up but I had a few questions for anyone with answers. :) Is 1/2" rope the only size that will work? Has anyone tried 3/8" rope? How well does this tool work for directional felling? I'm currently using tow straps and regular winches but it's a pain when the tree and the anchor point are more than 60' or so away.

Any additional insights would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


Kevin

1/2" rope works the best , I use Samson Tree Master rated at 7000lbs. tensile, hard lay tight twist.
This is what the manufacturer recommends.
You could use 3/8" rope as a pull line and place an adjustable hitch over the 3/8 with the 1/2" then running through the winch but you'll lose pulling strength.
I have two maasdam winches and just purchased a portable (gas) capstan winch and will soon have a GRCS capstan.

Samson Rope

RSteiner

I purchased one recently and have used it to direct three trees to fall the way I wanted them to go.  I really like this tool.

I would not recommend trying 3/8 rope, which may seem to work but I think could slip on the drive wheel at the worst possible time.  The manufacturer recommends three strand rope and I would stay with that, I do have a length of 1/2 woven rope that works well also.

If there are any tricks to using the rope puller it would be to get the rope tied as high up as possible in the tree you want to pull over.  I have heard of some people using a fishing pole and a heavy weight to cast a pull line up higher than you can throw a weight and pull line.

I am going to get a nylon lifting sling to use on the other end of the rope puller.  This can be wrapped around a good tree without doing as much damage to the bark as a chain would.

The ideal set-up would be to connect a pulley to a tree or stationary object in the direction of fall and anchor the rope puller to another tree off in the "retreat" area.  This way you never have to travel in the path of the falling tree.

Now I have to read what others have had to say.

Randy
Randy

Sawyerfortyish

I been cuting timber for more than 15 years and I just use the nudge method  ;) Cut your notch start your backcut and give em a nudge with old TJ :o

rebocardo

> I have heard of some people using a fishing pole and a heavy weight to cast a
>  pull line up higher than you can throw a weight and pull line.

I use to use a dog trainer (tennis balls) with a 5/16 shackle and twine. But, for pines where the nearest limb is 50+ feet off the ground and the rough bark, I decided to get a

BIG SHOT.

With the arbortist line and 12 oz. weights you can get a good 100 feet into a tree with the slingshot.

I went to my local Stihl dealer and got the 8 foot fiiberglass pole instead of the two four foot sections.

I do not use rope for my bull lines, since I do urban removal, I use 1/4 cable. When push comes to SNAP, the 1/4 cable can stand a much higher shock load. 

I probably will go with rope eventually for the smaller trees, since it is easier to handle, but, for anything over 14" DBH, it is cable all the way.

Kevin

What is the tensile strength of your 1/4" wire rope ?

This is a warning from a manufacturer of wire rope ...

QuoteNever "shock load" a wire rope. A sudden application of force or load can cause both visible external damage and internal damage. There is no practical way to estimate the force applied by shock loading a rope. The sudden release of a load can also damage a wire rope.

Tom

what would be an example of shock load?

Kevin

QuoteSerious accidents have occurred when wire ropes have broken due to shock loading. Slack can develop in a wire rope when its load unexpectedly slows or stops. If a load is reapplied to a slack rope, a shock load will result when the slack runs out.
Shock loading can generate extremely high force on a wire rope. For this reason, it is important to avoid slack rope and to avoid other situations which can shock load a wire rope.

Tom, it's usually due to fast starts or stops.

Wire rope is referred to as static and not dynamic which will stretch prior to breaking.
It's a good rule not to shock load any kind of rope.

Tom

Oh!  This is what my cousin Ben would do to us.

When we were in our teens and water skiing at Dynamite Point, he would turn the boat one way and we would get outside of the wake and go a ba-zillion miles per hour.  .........then he would turn the boat the other way real sharp.   We would pass the  boat, the rope would go slack, the skis would sink in the water and the boat would be picking up speed.  By the time he hit the end of the rope, we were stopped in the water and he was going full tilt. 

That's shock loading.

We had to drop the rope or be drawn and quartered.  :D

Kevin

Which brings me to ask ...
why is it called Dynamite Point, ?

Tom

Ah-h-h-h, Grasshopper!

When the corps of engineers were clearing the Ft. Pierce inlet for access to large ships about 1930, there was a place on the south side of Huthinson island where the bottom was solid limerockand sand corral.   Sand Corral is a fast growing, softer coral that starts out soft but gets fairly hard.  Is is very fast growing and caused them a fit to stay ahead of it.

This, and an area in the turning basin, are the only places were dynamite had to be used for the ships channel in the entire Ft. Pierce Inlet area.  The rest was sand, as was the Indian River itself.  Sand could just be dredged, and it was.   So, this "point" with the rocks became know as Dynamite Point.

It is the point just north of Coon Island on the North side of the Inlet.

Sawyerfortyish

The cable on a skidder gets shock loaded all day long. Best example I can think of is sucking a load around a corner in a skid road. Dropping the hitch pulling forward and snapping the cable tight while in the forward motion to apply more force to bend the logs around a corner. Don't know what the manufacturer has to say about doing that to a cable but it works for me.

Kevin

The larger the cable or rope the more abuse it will take but it isn't good for it.
If the cable snaps and you're well protected it's probably going to be a non event.
When you're pulling trees near homes and power lines not to mention standing in line with the cable the outcome could be much different.

Sawyerfortyish

I had a winch on my pickup once and when I always needed to pull myself out I would hang a couple coats over the winch line for saftey. Dont know if it would have helped or not but it made me feel better.

beenthere

sawyer40ish
Shock on the cable as well as the rest of the equipment using your method happens, and is not good, as it will lead to earlier repairs of something more expensive than just early replacement of the cable.  If you own the equipment, then it comes out of your pocket. If not, it comes from someone elses pocket.  :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

rebocardo

> This is a warning from a manufacturer of wire rope ...

Isn't that true of any rope, or actually, any product?

> What is the tensile strength of your 1/4" wire rope ?

You mean tensile or WLL? 6,000-7,000 pounds min.

> what would be an example of shock load?

Having a tree falling normally, hinge is broken,
then snags on another tree (branch), changes direction by
sliding along the other tree in the wrong sideways direction,
towards the ground, until the dead man line that was slacked,
stops it. BOING.

> Dont know if it would have helped or not but it made me feel better.

It makes you feel better, is better then nothing, but, will not stop
a cable effectively that snaps under tension. A 1/4 cable will take out
saplings, a coat or blanket is not too effective.

What I have found that works better is to put a 5 gallon bucket with
a handle, on the cable with wood in it. When the line snaps, it drops it
to the ground, then the rope from the bucket to the load,
will whip back towards the truck.

So, place the bucket more then 1/2 way on the rope or use two buckets.

If the bucket slides on the rope, towards the ground, black duct
tape on the handle will keep it in position.

From experience, the cable will snap where it is looped right behind
the clamps on the load side and will whip along the ground at bucket-
knee height.

I have in my trucks "headache" protection. In my 4x4 van I have a metal
cargo wall behind the front seats.

I usually do not use the 1/4" cable for skidding, though when I do, I use it at the log for a chocker and attach it to 5/16 transport chain. So, it becomes the weak link and breaks before the chain if I snag something. At the current lot clearing, I usually do not pull it more then 100 feet, I would not use more then 20 feet of it for doing such, and I do not drive more then 3 mph in case I snag.

Basically, its the "tow" cable I keep in my van to help pull others broken down on the highway. I treat it different then my dead man and winch lines which are junk once damaged or badly shocked.

I would not use anything smaller then 3/8 for normal skidding, I do not use 3/8 for deadman/bull  lines because it is tough enough hauling 1/4" cable 50+ feet into the air. The 1/4" meets the strength requirement of that and costs much less then rope of equal strength and will deform instead of break under a shock load.

What will usually happen is the cable clamps will skrunch up towards the loop before the cable comes near the breaking limit.



dancan

I think that if we try hard enough 1" cable could be broken but i"ll still put more faith in 1/4 cable before 1/2 rope .

Kevin

That's ok with me but what is that based on?

You need to know what forces you are dealing with before you even begin the work or it's just a crap shoot and someone or something is going to get hurt.
You'll never see an experienced arborist using 1/4" winch cable to rig a tree and there's more than one good reason for it.


Sawyerfortyish

I had a tree service guy come in with a load of logs so I told him to dump them in the usall spot. It had just rained and was muddy and he was loaded heavy. He dumped the load and tryed to pull forward but was stuck. He brought out one of his ropes and tied one end to the front axle and the other to my 70hp ford tractor. He said this rope will pull twice what this truck weighs. Wrong it broke and I didn't even tug very hard. So he tyed a knot and we tryed again and again and again. Finally I said let me get a chain and out the truck come. I don't put much dependance in rope but by the same token I've seen many come alongs snap there cables too just trying the get a stuck pickup out. The higher you get the line up the tree the less force youll need to pull it over. I guess everyone has to use what there comfortable with.

Kevin

It's not the tensile strength it's the working load limit on the rope that needs to be considered.
A (new) 7000lb. tensile synthetic rope or a 1/4" wire rope rated at 7000lbs. should never be used without a safety factor.
Any rope, wire or synthetic rated at 7000lbs. can only be expected to be used with forces at or near 1400lbs. and if that force becomes shock loaded then that number goes out the window pretty quick.
Most experiened tow truck drivers won't use rope to pull stuck trucks and most experienced arborists won't use chain to rig trees.


rebocardo

> most experienced arborists won't use chain to rig trees.

Think you meant to say cable? Yes, for someone climbing up into a tree to lower limbs, I would not use cable. Besides the weight, it is difficult to work with uncoiling and lowering not to mention making a quick knot/noose to get an exact length.

When I use a climber, to get my cable up into the tree, he takes up line, so I can pull the cable up using a pulley. Something about not wanting to carry up another 30 pounds with the saw or something  :D


rebocardo

> How well does this tool work for directional felling

I guess the real question would be, since this device does not use a drum, will the rope pull back through the puller when put under tension from a load pulling away from it or would the rope snap first?

Kevin

I meant to say chains as we were talking about tree work related to towing trucks.
You would use rope for tree work and chain for truck towing.

The rope can be put through a rope brake or a friction hitch so it can't slip.

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