Pruning Loblolly pine

[tonydrake]

I have started a new silvaculture for my pine plantations.  I buy loblolly pine plantaions in central and south alabama, USA.  There many large trees that have not pruned well naturally.  I have started pruning with power pruning saws up to 19' to get a plywood/veneer log.  I fertilize my plantations to get maximum diameter growth.  These trees I am pruning will average >10 inches dbh.  I expect these trees to be >12 inches dbh in 5 to 6 years and large enough for plywood logs.  Will the scars be healed over by this time or will it take longer so they will not be culled by the scaler at the plywood mill?

[beenthere]

Check with some foresters in your area (especially if you are investing in plantations and pruning with the expectation to get a return on that investment), and I expect you will find it takes a few more years than 5-6 to cover the scars as they will show in the bark pattern. The veneer buyers will have a real good idea just how long ago the pruning was done, and I'd expect (although haven't graded southern pine logs) the buyers will wan't more clear wood over the stubs, but I don't know.
Do a search for southern pine log grading and you may find some good information on what the effects of pruning are over time and growth rate.  Also, visit a veneer operation and watch the pine logs being peeled. You will get a good education in the process and a great experience. 
Welcome to the forum.

[Riles]

Adding 2 inches of dbh is easily attainable in 5 or 6 years in Alabama. And pruning and fertilizing can be beneficial to a plantation. But there's a couple of things you need to consider.

The first is economics. Both fertilizing and pruning can be expensive and cost more than the payoff. You have to crunch the numbers and make some assumptions.

The second is marketing. Just because you say you've babied these trees and pruned them to make better veneer, doesn't mean the buyer will believe you (or pay you more). This is more of an issue when pruning is done early and 20 years of growth are put on instead of 5 or 6. Pruning is most advantageous to operations that include a sawmill. I'll let someone with veneer buying experience address how they would value 2 inches of growth over knots, but I don't imagine there are too many 12 inch veneer logs.

[Ianab]

Like Riles says, the pruning has to be done early in the trees life to get much gain.  NZ methods are to heavily lift prune by stages in years 3 to 7 (maybe 9). This keeps the 'defects' contained in a 4" to 6" core of the log. Then let the trees grow for another 20 years to 24" - 36"dia. Most of the wood is clear, either as a peeler log or a high grade saw log. Worth 3 times what an unpruned log is worth. If you just trim the branches off later in the trees life, even though the stubs have sealed over there is very little clear wood in the log.
One thing thats done here is to document the early pruning regime. This gives you something to show the log buyer, and indicates the trees have been managed properly, and not just had the branches pruned off 5 years ago. Another procedure is to take a few sample trees from a stand and cut them up, that shows whats actually inside and the buyer can then offer a fair price. If the trees were late pruned they aren't really worth any more than unpruned.

Late pruning may make the log look better, but it's no better inside. A smart log buyer will know that.

Cheers

Ian

[Phorester]

Good replys.

I haven't seen anything about the size of the limbs you need to remove.  That will also have a bearing on how long it will take the pruning wounds to heal.

But like other posters, I'd be surprised if 2 inches of diameter growth over pruning wounds will be enough unless they are real small branches.

[tonydrake]

Some of the limbs are 3 to 4 inches in diameter but most are 2"

[Tom]

We have to be real careful getting too close to Loblolly around here.  The stuff grows so fast, you can become a missing person if your belt loops get hooked on a branch.   I've got a neighbor that stood too close to one he planted in his front yard and the only thing that saved him was the roofer that was putting his new roof on.  The roofer heard him holler and reached out and yanked him off of that limb as he was going by. 

It sure made my neighbor mad.  He went inside and got the chainsaw and took that tree down right then.   We sawed 1500 board feet out of it the next day.

[DanG]

Tom, you're telling a story, plain and simple.  That just ain't true.  There ain't no way any roofer would be quick enough to catch that guy. ;D

Tony, welcome to THE Forum.   I won't tell you not to prune those trees, but don't count on fooling a buyer with them.  Those stubs will heal over, but will leave "lumps" on the bole that are unmistakable.  I'm not at all sure that the effort will pay for itself.

[Phorester]

"Some of the limbs are 3 to 4 inches in diameter but most are 2""

You've probably already gathered from the other opinions that these trees will not grow over pruned branches that big in 5 years.  Probably take 10-12 before they are healed and the "lumps", as Dang says, begin to disappear with new diameter growth.

[getoverit]

I'm curious as to what you are fertilizing your plantations with and how are you doing it?

I would think that The tap root on pine trees runs so deep that it would be almost impossible to get the fertilizer down to a low enough level to do the tree that much good. I could see the benefit on a very young tree where the tap root is no more than a foot below ground level, but someone would have to convince me that a mature tree would benefit from fertilizing.

Then again....

Tom has loblolly pines growing in his bottom land that grows so fast it grows in cricles. We actually have pictures of this phenomina !

[DanG]

Pines have feeder roots that run along the surface, and frequently above the surface.  I'm not sure, but I think the tap root is mostly for taking up water.

[Riles]

LSU is conducting fertilization studies on loblolly pines near Calhoun, Louisiana. They're using DAP and chicken litter on a stand being used for pine straw production. The effect is dramatic, but the thing to consider is that they're merciless in removing weed competition. They do it for the pine straw harvesting, but the benefit is the lack of competition for the trees. 

[Ianab]

Do a soil test before you go throwing fertiliser around. If the soil is well balanced and fertile then you probably wont get much gain, but if the soil is deficient in some nutrient then you can make a big improvement to growth rates. Sometimes its trace elements like copper or boron that are missing, and the trees just 'dont do well'. If you are short of Nitrogen then DAP helps, etc etc.

Fetrilising without knowing may just be throwing money away.

Cheers

Ian

[Riles]

It's all a question of what the limiting factor is, because there's always ONE limiting growth factor in play at any time. Surprisingly, as a general rule of thumb in the southeastern US, it's usually water.

[Phorester]

GETOVERIT, the roots where a tree gets all of its moisture and nutrients are the fine feeder root system which is in the top 6 inches or so of soil underneath the entire branch spread of a tree.  The tap root doesn't need fertilizer. So spreading fertilizer on top of the ground underneath the branches and watering it in will reach the tree roots that need it.  Which also points out how important it is to control other vegetation as pointed out by Riles, so the tree roots get the fertilizer instead of other plant roots.

Deep fertiliztion sometimes helps a tree that has had most of it's fine root system cut off or damaged, as from grading activities in a yard or compaction by heavy equipment.

Another point, if the Ph of the soil is off for the plants you want to grow, the plants won't absorb the nutrients already available in the soil.  The main reason why a soil test should include Ph analysis for the plants you are trying to favor.  Many times adjusting the Ph is all that's needed to increase growth rates of plants.

[getoverit]

I have learned something

[Pullinchips]

I agree with the economics of fertilizing.  Fertilizer costs $ to buy unless you have a chichen house and drive your spreader under the trees to get rid of the poop.  So like mentioned before does the added value over not fertilizing carried out to the harvest year with interest pay off, you or your forester need to decide that. It may if you have a serious nutrient limiting factor.  Most likely this fertilizing will not.  Second pruning if done yourself and you do not value your own time thanb no harm is done.  If you liketo get out and do if for fun it can only benefit you.  On the other hand if you pay to have it done i think you may not see a return.  And as said before the ply logs are the high $ stuff those guys can spot a quality log from a chain or mor away they wolnt be easily fooled especially by a forest of them.  As said i would think in 10 years you could get enough clean wood if branch stubs were small (under 2") to over look.  But a 4 in branch will have a good branch collor on it that cant really be trimmed and after 6 years will still be bumps all over the log as the cambium expands over the knot and adds to it.  It will no loner have a knot and have normal looking bark (maybe?) but still be a raised surface.  This may take some of the logs that may cause some of the logs that might have been en route to the pulb mill to now go for a low quality or even decent saw log but i would doubt ply logs.  This said i am no wood buyer or consider myself an expert but those guys know their stuff. 

I have pruned lobs here in SC and our growth rate may not be as good as in AL but it is comparible to most similar areas.  I have seen branch stubs still visible 2-3 growing seasons later so in5-6 the chances of no evidence are to me unlikely.

Bottom line is that there your woods to do with as you please if you want to do a specic silvicultural practice be aware that you may not get a positive return on your investment.  But if you like to grow trees fast and spend time inthe woods if that is how you want to spend your money go ahead and do it.  After all some guys buy new cars every year not a sound investment.  Some guys pay $30-100+ for a round of golf that only lasts 4 hrs its all how you define fun and what you enjoy doing.

-Nate