iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

How to get best figure quarter sawing?

Started by Kelvin, June 03, 2006, 09:41:21 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Kelvin

Howdy all,
Last thread was about best mill to use for QS, but Arky said something about following the rays and not the grain.  What are the best techniques for getting the best figure while QS?  How do you follow the rays?  Sometimes i'm exactly 90 degrees to the grain and the figure isn't that great in a big red oak.  How is that possible?  Rays can deviate from the grain?  I thought they were there to move water perpendicular to the bark.  Any help out there?
Thanks
KP

Brad_S.

I'm not sure what Arky was saying either and interested to hear his reply, but I'll put my 2¢ in as I've sawn 7M bdft of QS RO in the last month.

The faster the tree grows (the wider the growth rings), the less showy the fleck pattern is. Additionally, red oak isn't as figured as white from the get go. I had a chance to saw a very slow growth WO once and the flecking was incredible, just like the stuff you see on turn of the century "golden oak" furniture.

I use the sawing method like the one Urbanlogger out lines on his web site, which I shamelessly link to when I explain QS to people.
http://www.scottbanbury.com/qsawmethod2.pdf
Using this method results in at least some fleck in every board and very little figure-less rift sawn.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

timcosby


oakiemac

I have noticed that some RO's don't show as much fleck as others. I think the statement about tight growth rings is right on the money. I was sawing RO this week and qs a bunch of really nice boards with a tremendous amount of fleck. I'm thinking about calling this Tiger fleck or some such thing and selling it for $1 more per bf :)

Sycamore is some times hard to see the fleck. I posted about this last year. I found that if I waited until the logs "matured" then the fleck came out much better. These logs had just been felled the day before and were literally gushing out water with each cut. I couldn't see any ray fleck but after leting the logs sit for 6 months I could see it much better.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Brad_S.

Quote from: timcosby on June 03, 2006, 02:50:55 PM
that is a great site. thanks!
Thank Scott Banbury, aka Urbanlogger here on the FF. He has a great site with much more info on QS than that one page. Here's his site:
http://www.scottbanbury.com/
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Larry

I took this picture long time go for some other thread just to illustrate the rays and how they translate to figure.




Use your toe boards to position the blade parallel to the rays at each end of the log...if ya don't the figure will run out half way down the board.  Forget about the growth rings...they don't mean nothing.  Sometimes at right angles to the rays and sometimes maybe 70 degrees.  You can see interesting patterns develop and saw for them also.  Straight stripes across the board and your sawing perfect.  Curved stripes and your getting crooked from the rays.  Arky has a good picture of this, but as far as I know he never has explained what is taking place.

A secret us in the midwest know is burr oak has really nice, fat, and juicy rays.  And the bigger the tree the better.  Before I quarter saw a red oak it better be showing good rays on the end or it will get plain sawn.

Just unloaded a load of quarter sawn sycamore from the kiln yesterday...had a helper but the guy bought every board over 6" wide...some 16" wide and he paid a premium.  I kept the prettiest two for myself...I'll take a picture when they get put through the planer.


Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

ARKANSAWYER



  If you look at Larry's photo and the one above you can see the rays that produce the fleck you want to see in the boards.   The more and fatter the rays the better the fleck.   The rays do not (I repeat do not) always go straight in and out from the bark to the pith and do not always cross the growth rings at 90 degrees.  For qsawing you should select logs with many fat straight rays.   Checking will follow the rays and if it curves so does the rays.   So if you saw and the blade is level with the rays then the best fleck will show.

  Small log qsawing (16 to 24 inch) that I did Friday and Saturday for a customer.

















ARKANSAWYER

Bibbyman

How much extra do you charge to custom saw quarter sawn? 

I may be slow but I bet it takes me twice as long to quarter saw a log vs. grade or any other method.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ARKANSAWYER


   Now like in the photos it is as fast as grade sawing.   I take the three middle qsawn boards and then the halves are sawn top to bottom so I get flat, rift and qsawn boards out of them.   Larger logs over 24 inches start making pies that will yield boards wider then 5 inches and it does slow down when you saw the pies.  But since the logs are larger yeild is still around 200 bdft an hour.   On this job I was getting paid by the hour and was to produce the very best fleck so some time was taken to level the pith and rays.
  Also sawing like in the photos you have little waste and yield is about the same as grade sawing.

ARKANSAWYER

Bibbyman

I think it takes me longer because the logs I've Q-sawn have been big and mostly "aged" so they'd be a trouble to saw anyway.

Also,  while I saw pretty much the same pattern as you show except I try to tip the for 'corner' chunks up and get true q-sawn grain out of them also.  This takes a lot of time taking these chunks off the mill and putting them back on and getting the clamped,etc.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Kelvin

Yeah, the pies are what kills my time.  Thats why i was wondering if a swing mill eliminates the waste in time for these.  I'd like to concentrate full time on QS oak, and if a different mill can do it much quicker, i'd consider switching.
I've never seen a log were the rays weren't 90 degrees to the grain.  Guess i'll keep looking.
Thanks for all the pics and replies!
KP

MotorSeven

Quote from: oakiemac on June 03, 2006, 03:00:08 PM
I have noticed that some RO's don't show as much fleck as others. I think the statement about tight growth rings is right on the money. I was sawing RO this week and qs a bunch of really nice boards with a tremendous amount of fleck. I'm thinking about calling this Tiger fleck or some such thing and selling it for $1 more per bf :)

Sycamore is some times hard to see the fleck. I posted about this last year. I found that if I waited until the logs "matured" then the fleck came out much better. These logs had just been felled the day before and were literally gushing out water with each cut. I couldn't see any ray fleck but after leting the logs sit for 6 months I could see it much better.

Oakiemac,
What size to you generally saw sycamore to get the least twist/warp during drying? I have a large creek running the lenght of my propery with some monster syc''s that occasionally fall into the creek, so i want to saw them up. Any pointers appreciated!
Larry & Arkansawyer,
Thanks for the pic's on the quarter sawing ref the rays/flecks....it was a great help in the visualiation of the quatersaw process.
This is a great board....the info priceless!
RD
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

Dan_F

I run a lucas and we can get about 80 percent easily q sawing second growth redwood, old growth we can get  about 90 percent and it takes only a few minutes more than plainsawing the whole log.
2001 F-350 flatbed dump, JD 550, Kubota L48, Cat 966, Cat D7, Lucas 613, 14 husqvarnas

oakiemac

Motorseven, I generally try to only qs logs that are >20"dib. You can do smaller but you end up with real narrow boards and most people want boards that are at least 5" wide. As far as keeping it flat while drying-that is a whole nother issue. The best advice that I can give is to make sure that if you are cutting boards that will have the pith in them make sure it is centered in the board. Syc can be hard to keep from twisting but I havent had too much problems but I have problem only sawed a few thousand feet of Sycamore.
I do think that it is one of the prettiest wood when quarter sawn.

I'm not going to get into the band vs circle saw thing, but I think a swinger or multi-blade mill like the MD can quarter saw like nobodys buisness. the reason for this is that we can cut horizontally or vertically at any point in the log. Of course you still get rift sawn as well as pure qs. I don't mind the rift in Oak because that is a marketable product but in Sycamore I haven't found anyone that wants rift.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

ARKANSAWYER


  Swingers may make faster qsawn lumber but they can not make 12 to 16 inch wide boards while sawing for best rays.   Get a good 12 inch wide qsawn board and watch wood workers drool and pay  well for them.     I have some 8/4 20 inch wide clear qsawn red oak that I have turned down $5 a bdft for air dried.   The drool stains are getting bad around that pile.
ARKANSAWYER

MotorSeven

Thanks Oakie, i look forward to cutting them up. I did chainsaw carve a 'tiki man" out of syc and it seems to be aging well, and man is that stuff heavy!
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

Thank You Sponsors!