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TimberSIL Anyone?

Started by jrdwyer, May 18, 2006, 08:38:29 AM

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jrdwyer

It's probably too early for this post, but has anyone yet used TimberSIL treated lumber? http://www.timbersil.com/

If it works, it looks to put ACQ out of business. I wonder how the wood bees will like it? My neighbor put up a new ACQ fence last fall and I can still smell it when the wind blows over.

I recently saw some rough treated yellow poplar at HD advertised for horse fences. The pieces were 16 feet long.

Other than the abundance of SYP at relatively low prices, why not use fine grained woods like Douglas Fir or Yellow Poplar for treated deck boards? My observation on SYP is that it splinters and checks severly over time outdoors. This seems to be a big reason why composites have expanded so much for decking. Would the fine grained woods perform better for treated deck boards than SYP?





beenthere

jr
Few woods treat well, and SYP is one wood that does, from what I understand. Only the sapwood takes treatment. Some red pines are also treated with preservatives. No experience with TimberSIL.
Some hard-to-treat woods will be incised (small slits rolled into the surface) to take more treatment, which adds to the cost. 
Some woods advertised as "treated" are not necessarily treated with rot-preventive treatments. Doing about anything to a piece of wood can get it classified as "treated", so what the treatment is would be good to know. One company just dipped the wood in a red-dye and called it treated redwood. Worked for awhile.  :)

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ron Wenrich

I saw that one on This Old House this past weekend.  They were talking about landscape timbers, and they showed the silicon treat.  It is said to be cost competitive, non toxic, and you can put a finish on it.  The wood looks just as fresh as it did when it was sawn.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

urbanlumberinc

I've tried that crap, and wouldn't sell it to my worst enemy.  It's okay if you get it lagged down the day it shows up onsite, but if it sits awhile it starts to twist like nothing you've ever seen.  Try the Timberstrand brand LSL sill plate.  That's all I'll use anymore.  It's essentially an OSB 2x4 thats formed under higher pressure.  Great stuff, straight as can be, no warping, splintering or checking, and no need for special hangers or fastners.

beenthere

Tell us more about your experience with TimberSIL.  While emphatic, your comments were not too descriptive. What species was the TimberSIL, and what size material, and for what intended purpose were you using it?  Where did you get it?
Interested in what you learned and if the LSL is a substitute for TimberSIL. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

jrdwyer

I hear you on the use of the word "treated". Five years ago I put in some CCA treated landscape timbers and they are already falling apart. These are the small rounded edge ones you commonly see at lumberyards. It was my stupidity for not making sure they were treated to a certain standard. But common, timbers that are intended for landscaping and only last five years? I would have been much better off with rough white oak heart timbers.

The next ones I put in will be made to last longer. I not a big fan of the cresote smell, so I am curious about TimberSil and the composite timbers.

Tom

Those landscape timbers with the round edges are just pine veneer cores.  The log was cut rotationally, usually for plywood veneers, and what you have is what was left when the knives had reduced the log to a size where it was no longer mechanically stable, full of knots, pith and too small to keep the surface speed up for cutting.

Here's some things to think of when you buy those landscape timbers.

1.  They are treated to the point of refusal.  That doesn't mean that they hold a specific amount of treatment, only that they couldn't get anymore in the wood in the length of time it was in the tank.  How long it is in the tank depends on how much time the plant has to delegate to the job, not how long it takes to permeate the wood.

2.  Pressure Treatments (CCA) do not replace water in the wood.  Water stops the acceptance of the treatment.  Pine must be dried to 19% to get acceptable treatment.  The pine logs run on the veneer lathe are green.  They have also been wet and sometimes heated to facilitate easier shearing.   The  core would have to be kiln dried to accept treatment.  Time is of the essence and the core may go to the treatment vat improperly dried.

3.  Pine's heart wood does not accept treatment very good, if at all.  The core of a veneer log, being used for a landscape timber contains mostly heart.   It is incised to make an effort to get it to accept treatment but the heart of the tree is inherently non-receptive.

So, what protection do you have in a landscape timber?  The natural resistance of the heartwood to decay, plus whatever treatment they have been able to drive into it.  Generally very little.

If you have to cut the treated landscape timber to length, you are exposing the untreated, or lessor treated, center.

One of these landscape timbers may be treated from nothing to ground contact quality (.40).  It's a flip of the coin as to the resistance you have purchased.


(fine print)
These remarks are gathered from conversations I've had with producers, wholesalers and retailers, and   are opinion and general knowledge, all of which is not substantiated by scientific fact.
:)

beenthere

Looks pretty factual to me, Tom :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

getoverit

I'm interested in wood treatment also, but only to the point where it wouldnt require any special harassment permits from the EPA to do so. I have been working on the market for horse fences, stables, and barns.

I have seen some discussion of the Life Time Wood Preservative and I wonder if any of you have tried it and if it is cost effective to use this and try to sell it as treated wood for fences and barns?

Do any of you send your lumber off to treatment facilities (CCA) and have it treated? If so, how expensive is this?

Dang ;D I'm full of questions on this subject ;D
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

chet

I pay $160.00 a thousand for .60 CCA treatment.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

ellmoe

GOI,

   I pay from $175 to $250/mbf for ACQ or equivalent. Most of the treating companies used the change over in chemicals to hit their TSO (treatment Service Only) customers with some heavy increases in fees. I have several customers that have begun using untreated pine for fencing , siding, and such in place of the more expensive PT and much more expensive and less available cypress. The pine in Central Fla. is different that the plantation wood in your area, denser and more heart as a rule. I sided my mill building
with pine 14 years ago just to watch it and it still is holding up.
Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Quartlow

Ok I realize that there are times when your stuck using PT wood due to code.

What I don't understand is why buy pt for landscaping when locust would work just fine.
Look how long some locust post's have been in the ground, I'll bet soem of us can walk outside and lay our hands on post's our grandfathers put in the ground and they are still solid.

I'm on the hunt for some locust myself right now. I want to build a deck out of it. If I rember right one of our menbers all ready has
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

Tom

We don't  have locust.  We used to have cypress.  We have pine.  If you don't treat it, the termites will have it riddled in weeks and it might be pure luck to have it last through a season of rotting dampness or two.   

When you live in Florida you try not to let wood touch the ground.  :)

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