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Wood Treatment Technology

Started by Ron Scott, May 15, 2006, 01:16:16 PM

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Ron Scott

TREATING IT RIGHT--USING NANOTECHNOLOGY TO PRESERVE WOOD:

Untreated wood rots. Ask anyone who has put his or her foot through a deck.

Pressure-treated wood eliminates that problem, but the metallic salts
used to keep good wood from going bad can pose a health and
environmental hazard. Other, safer materials, such as the organic
insecticides and fungicides used in home gardens, also have the
potential to preserve wood. However, because they don't dissolve well in
water, it has been very difficult to get them to permeate the
lumber.Now, Michigan Tech scientists are using nanotechnology to solve
the problem.

Pat Heiden, a chemistry professor, and Peter Laks, a professor in the
School of Forest Resources and Environmental Science, have discovered a
way to embed these organic compounds in plastic beads only about 100
nanometers across. "Six hundred of them in a row would be about the
width of a human hair," Laks says. Suspended in water, the beads are
small enough to travel through the wood when it is placed under
pressure.

"Wood has a very fine, sieve-like structure," Laks said. "You
need particles small enough to fit through those very small channels."
The beads go right to the heart of the wood and stay there, protecting
it from decay.

The technology has been licensed to the New Jersey-based
company Phibro-Tech, which supplies chemicals to the wood preservation
industry. "This is an emerging area," said Jim Baker, director of
technology partnerships. "It's nanotechnology being applied in a
traditional industry that has used technology for some time but which
isn't thought of as being high tech."

~Ron

CDN-woodchuck

another alternative is a product called Lifetime Wood Treatment, made in Calgary, AB, by a company called Valhalla

http://www.valhalco.com/

have some, but haven't tried it yet, our local municipalities use it for outdoor signage

Matt

Gary_C

What is timberSIL? 

How does it compare with these other new treatments?
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Cedarman

Wood that never rots.  What will we in the sawmill business do if decks do not have to be replaced?  Bigger question, what are the long term ecological effects of new types of preservatives?  What happens if the wood is burned?
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

DanG

Good question, Cedarman.  The continueing din of silence from the manufacturers doesn't lead me to believe that the news is good.  Even the landfill in our county won't accept PT wood.  What in the world are you supposed to do with your waste? ???

The good news, for you in particular, is that the only alternative to pressure treated wood mentioned in the Florida Code, is Eastern Red Cedar.  At least, that was the case last time I looked at it.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Cedarman

I do not understand why there are not a lot more 4x4x8' sold out there.  They are easy to make and will last for years and hold a stape or nail fairly well.  They weather to a beautiful mellow gray.  Cedar decks look nice and if you keep sapwood to a minimum will last for 40 years.  Sapwood will start to deteriorate in about 10 years.  Some of those treated decks look rather awful in 10 years too.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

DanG

I'm having a hard time understanding why Oklahoma ain't just covered up with sawmills, instead of mulch machines. ???
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Cedarman

No one has developed a big market for all the cedar after it is sawed.  Log cabins could use up a bunch of it.  But 85% of the trees are good for nothing but mulch though.  That only leaves about 2 billion feet of sawlogs.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

getoverit

We dont have the volumn of cedar here that there is elsewhere. I agree though, and would gladly try out a deck made out of it.

What we do have is an abundance of SYP here. I'm beginning to wonder if a solution made out of borax and copper sulphate would do just as good as the CCA treatment or other types of commercial treatment. I've been thinking about mixing up a batch of it and just soaking a load of 2x6's in it just to try it out. The copper sulphate for the fungus and bacteria, and the borax for the bugs. I really dont see why it shouldnt work, but I'm not a chemist or an expert on the subject.

Has anyone here actually tried the product made by valhalla?
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

bugmeist

I have used "LifeTime" on my raised garden beds.  This is only the 3rd year but they are still solid.  Used on Eastern Hemlock, White Spruce, and I think I even had 1 or 2 boards of Balsam. 

Also got tired of restaining our log house every 5+ years so in 2004 I corn blasted it, brushed on LifeTime, then rechinked with Perma Chink over the old mortar chinking.  I really like the way LifeTime 'ages' the wood ....it turns gray like weathered barn boards.  It's too soon to tell if it is a really good preservative but I was told by Valhalco (the manufacturer) the S.S.Marie, Ontario uses LifeTime treated lumber on the boardwalk along the St. Mary's River through downtown S.S.Marie when the pressure treated stuff needs replacing because it is an enviromentally benign preservative.

I'm happy with it so far and am hoping I will still be happy with 5, 10,...years from now.
100 acres, Lucas 618, Universal Tractor w/loader, chainsaws, cant hooks and not enough time to play!
Fear is temporary...regret is forever.   www.bugshirt.com

DanG

I took a look at the Valhalco website.  They don't say what this stuff is, but say it is non-toxic and all natural.  They say it has been in use for 60 years, and is perfect in every way.  I gotta wonder why we never heard of it in all that time.  Are they pulling our leg, or do they just have the world's worst marketing program?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

woodbowl

Quote from: getoverit on May 23, 2006, 08:40:24 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if a solution made out of borax and copper sulphate would do just as good as the CCA treatment .....

I've been thinking about mixing up a batch of it and just soaking a load of 2x6's in it just to try it out.

I've been wondering the same thing GOI. Why couldn't you weld several tanks together with a sealed door on the end, Pull a vacuume with an old refrigerator compressor, introduce the mix with your wood inside then put 100 lbs of pressure and hold it for an hour or so.

I've heard that the treatment companies even pull another vacuum at the last to reclaim some of the mix.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

bugmeist

DanG,

I actually talked to Valhalco (which seemed to be just 1 person) about 5 years ago when they were located in Alberta.  At the time the fellow I talked to told me that LifeTime was made from a recipe that has been in use in Scandanavia for 200+ years.  He convinced me enough to try it but any attempts to contact him after that  have been an answering machine which didn't return my calls.

As I said in a previous post...only time will tell if it works.

Valhalco really does need a marketing course!
100 acres, Lucas 618, Universal Tractor w/loader, chainsaws, cant hooks and not enough time to play!
Fear is temporary...regret is forever.   www.bugshirt.com

Stephen1

Interesting product but DangG why have has no one else heard of it. Does it work? I need to apply something this summer besides borax to the cabin.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

bugmeist

Stephen1,

I put LifeTime on my log house and would recommend it for the way it looks 100% ( it will make your cabin look like it's been there for 50 years so if you like that look...)

I am about 31/2 hours north of T.O. and you are welcome to have a look first hand.

Also if you have a good overhang (mine is 18') and you bottom logs aren't right on the ground you should not have too much worry about rot as the logs will be dry most of the time.
100 acres, Lucas 618, Universal Tractor w/loader, chainsaws, cant hooks and not enough time to play!
Fear is temporary...regret is forever.   www.bugshirt.com

Saddlehill Farm

This is for Bugmeist:

I saw your comment on LifeTime Wood Treatment:

I talked to a rep there.  She said that the treatment does not prevent the wood from
decaying. So I asked her what DOES it do, if you don't need to treat the wood anymore,
forever.  She said all that it does is excelerates the aging process of the wood, so it
will turn gray quickly.  I said, well do I need to treat it with something else to keep the
wood from decaying, and she said no... that it takes a lifetime for wood to decay.

I am really confused.  She said all I have to do to treat my logs on my log home, is just
with the LifeTime., and don't use any other treatments, or sealants.  My question is: So just let the logs go?  You said your posts after 3 years are solid.

Thanks for any insight that you might have!  Kim  :-\

Stephen1

Bugmeist, I would like that. After I get a roof on I will try to make it up to see your place and maybe your mill working. Talk to you in Aug. or Sept.
Stephen
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

bugmeist

Kim-Saddlehill Farm,

The 1 time I talked to the LifeTime guy he was fairly vague but I also checked with the city of SS Marie, ON  and Banff National Park who both felt confident that it did have "preservative" qualities.  Unfortunately those conversations were about 5 years ago and I didn't save the names, or other contact info of the people in SS Marie or Banff.


Stephen1
Yea come on up for a visit, look at the Lifetime on my logs and I'll try to have some logs ready to run through the Lucas.  Stay in touch by email.
100 acres, Lucas 618, Universal Tractor w/loader, chainsaws, cant hooks and not enough time to play!
Fear is temporary...regret is forever.   www.bugshirt.com

Saddlehill Farm

Thanks, Bubmeist:

I guess I won't worry about it then.  All I will do is get the cobra rods, to keep fungus and bugs out.

Thanks for your advice!
Kim  ;D

Saddlehill Farm

Hey BugMeist?

This is Kim again,.. are you going to treat your wood for fungus and insects?

Thanks,!!!  ???

Don P

Kim,
If you have contact info for the company, I would contact their tech line and speak to one of their chemists to get to the bottom of this. If it is just a dye or some form of oxidizer then I wouldn't bother. The comments from the rep sound intentionally deceptive. Wood can take a lifetime or more to decay, I've seen the many wooden items from Tut's tomb where they stayed bone dry and out of the light for thousands of years. I've also had wooden tomato stakes in ground contact rot off in a year. The natural rate of wood loss from siding in a properly built but unfinished house has been found to average about 1/4" per century, Forest Products Labs, what I'vwe seen in century+ old houses pretty much confirms that. If there is moisture getting to the wood and keeping it wet that climbs to inches /year. The intent of most finishes is to provide some degree of water repellancy and they normally also include preservatives that make the wood less appealing to insects and fungi.
Baking soda will accelerate graying in some woods, Cabot's also sells a greying product.

getoverit

I have read everthing there is on their website, and I still dont know exactly what it is they are selling or what it is used for. The only thing for certain is that it turns wood grey... big deal!

What would be nice is some way of actually preserving wood for the small timer that just needs to treat a few boards from rot, water, bugs and algae.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Saddlehill Farm

Don P and Getoverit:

I totally agree with you.  The way they stated their product was puzzling. First they said you never need to treat the wood again, and then was told that it does not stop the wood from decaying. I asked the rep should I go ahead and seal the wood after using the product, and she said it could turn the wood black. Great.

Here is what I did, I talked to a few people who have used this product. Several  had treated their wood a few years ago, and  said the wood is still just as solid and looked great.  Also, several cities use it and are very happy with it.  I could not find one negative anywhere, and I researched and researched.  I think I will ask to talk to a chemist, and I will look into Cabots.  Thanks, guys, for your help! I love these forums.

bugmeist

I find it kind of curious that all the packaging for LifeTime says it's manufactured bt the "LifeTime Wood Preservative Company". :-\
100 acres, Lucas 618, Universal Tractor w/loader, chainsaws, cant hooks and not enough time to play!
Fear is temporary...regret is forever.   www.bugshirt.com

Saddlehill Farm

Bugmeist:

Yes, it sounds like something isn't right. Time will tell, though you said your wood is looking great.  Any bugs or fungus?  Kim :o

steamdonkey

Hi folks. Any of you early users have some feedback on how well (or not) this product works? Many thanks.

Scotty

I noticed a lot of folks discussing 'Lifetime Wood Treatment', back around 2006. Anyone still around this forum who can give us an update on how it's holding up 6 years later?
Regards, Scotty

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