winches for moving logs

[SawInIt CA]

Now that I got a mill and wont always be in the yard with support equipment.....How many of you use your truck winch here and there to move logs. I dont have a winch on my truck right noe and am thinking of getting a Warn 12,000. Thanks in advance.

[DanG]

Hey, Saw. I just installed a MileMarker 10,500 lb hydraulic winch in the back of my truck. Haven't had a chance to try it out, yet. I got if for $799 through Harbor Freight, and had to add another $60 for the kit to hook it up. It works off the power steering pump, so you don't have overheating problems, or batteries running down, etc.
I ordered it via phone on a Saturday, and it arrived, drop shipped from the factory, the following Thursday. HF paid the shipping.
I plan to give it the test, this weekend, so I'll let you know how it turns out.

[OneWithWood]

I have had a MilMarker 10,500 lb winch installed on my F250
for two years now.  I occasionally will move logs with it and it does fine for a short pull.  I think my power steering pump is not fully up to the task of powering this winch.  The pump whines all the time and the one time I really need the winch it was not up to the task.  I got stuck with a full load of firewood on a steep slope.  The winch made the cable taught put could not pull the truck up the incline.  Then I ran out of gas.  Pump will not work when the engine won't turn :(  I ended up hiring a crawler to pull the truck out.  Now I have a crawler with a timber winch that I use to get logs, trucks, tractors, what-have-you out of the ravines  Don't know what I will do when I hang the crawler up ;D

[ohsoloco]

I use a 9000lb. Superwinch to load logs onto my trailer, and have managed to pull two ton logs (I think these winches are rated for rolling weight.  As far as moving the big ones around the yard, I usually just hook a chain to the truck and the log and drop into low range.  Thought about getting some skidding tongs to make this easier, but when I need my truck to move them they're usually too big for any tongs I can buy  ???

[Fla._Deadheader]

I have a 15000# Warn Winch on the boat. It will pull the guts out of a 4D battery when I get a good log hooked and it is buried. I have a 4HP Honda hooked to a 40 Amp Delco Alternator for support. Sometimes all you get is ERP, ERP, and the winch drum moves less than an inch.
   I have pulled both transoms about 4 inches under water trying to loosen logs. Had one last week that the tongs just ripped grooves on both sides and NEVER bubbled the sucker. Going back with BIGGER tongs that I made. Will straddle a 38" log !!! There is a 12000 # Commercial winch, by Warn, but, the 15000 just came out and I got a great deal from 4X4country.com, I think, in Texas. Check Ebay.

[Kevin_H.]

I have a 4500 lb super winch mounted on my trailer, I always use a block to double line pull, and so far I have not found a log I could not load. I run off a one battery mounted on the trailer and charged from the truck. My advise would be to buy the largest winch the billfold can buy.

I like Fla._Deadheader's idea of backing up the battery with a motor and alternater

[Fla._Deadheader]

Here's a not too close pic of the work boat and traveling winch carriage and Honda Charger

[Larry]

Think heat and occasional use.  These winches are really made to get you unstuck and not for logging.  I have a friend who has one of the winches that run off the power steering pump.  He cuts firewood to sell and pulls the trees out of the hollars with the winch.  He had a bunch of trees down and started to pull them out, after a couple of hours the power steering fluid got so hot it melted the plastic power steering reservoir, dipstick, and rotor on the power steering pump.  I had a Warn 6,000 LB DC winch about 20 years ago that I used continuously and the heat got to it.  That power cable will be hot after pulling for about 30 seconds.  They draw a tremendous amount of amps and are hard on the battery and alternator.  Gave out after about 3 months but Warn has a good warranty so got my money back.  Either type works well so long as you don't use them continuously.

If you are going to do a lot of winching get a hydraulic winch that runs off a separate pump or a screw winch.  Sometimes you can find a good one off an old wrecker.

Larry

[DonT]

I saw an add for a portable winch for moose hunting in my local newspaper.I called the guy and went to see it.What I found was a a platform on small wheels with a 3hp motor connected to a torque converter that then turned a winch drum from some sort of industrial equipment.It was so unique I bought it for two hundred bucks.The owner threw in an axe and a 5 ton block and tackle.The unit has no practical use when I go moose hunting but it works great in the bush hauling logs around. I don't have to worry about battery power and it is very portable and versatile.   DonT

[SawInIt CA]

Thanks for the input! I think I will get the Warn 12,000 or 15,000 just need to move a log here and there but I might as well get one that will pull the truck out too.

[ADfields]

If your talking a constant pull at 1/2 or beter of it's rating you want a hydraulic winch (or geer to shaft PTO)!   On tow trucks thay math out how much fulid is in the systom and add a tank that holds 4 times that to give it time to cool down befor it is put back past the pump and moter.   So if your power steering pump winch and hoses (parts that are runing) held 1 galon you would want the tank and rest of the systom to hold 4 galons for a total of 5 galons.   Even with all that fulid (and it's more like 150 galons on one of my towtrucks) I have melted the O-rings out of the winch moters pulling about 3/4 of it's rateing for about 20 minuts.   For pulls under a minut or so and long cool off/recharging time the Warn 12,000 or 15,000 will do you proud.   My Dad has a Warn 12,000 on his F250 with 2 big bat's.   We were out hunting and I got stuck so we hooked his winch to my truck and he winched me about 3 feet to get me un hi centered, he did this with his motor off.   We hand puled the line out so no power used there and we puled HARD for 3 feet and with no load for about 20 feet to put the lind up.   Dad got back in his truck and hit the key, clickclickclickbbbBBBBBBZZZZZZ!!!! ???   That bit of hard pulling melted the plats in BOTH bats and thay had to be replaced.   So take it to hart when I tell you NEVRE winch a load without your motor charging back to the bat!   Dad also had a 100 amp altanator from Auto-Zone with the lifetime warranty on it and after 15 replacements or so thay gave him ihs money back and sead "dont come round no more for that" :D   It's a very good winch just not ment for "working" hard all the time.
Andy

[Fla._Deadheader]

That's exactly why we use a 4D battery. That size is for starting tractors and such with around 40--70 Hp diesels. 8D's would be better, but for us, the weight would take away from our floatability. BTW, NEVER use deep cycle batteries with a decent size winch. Talk about a meltdown!!??

  I do know of a crew doing the same thing we are, and they use "Die-hards". Standard size 27 series. Won't last all day and they change out from one outboard motor when needed. They carry them home at night and charge with an electric charger. Seems like a lot of fussing around, if ya ask me????

[bull]

Stop the insanity!!!!!!! >:( Dont drag logs) pick them up!
  Get them off the ground and out of the dirt!!!  Dirt and grit
 stones etc. are no good for your blades. We dont skid logs nowadays- we forward them as soon as they get to the logging roads and keep them off the ground from then on.
 stack logs on bunks in the mill yard or on site and keep them off the ground and out of the grit. if you need to spend money by a tractor w/ a loader and a set of forks.

[woodman]

Bull you have to understand thay like mudd on logs thats why thay skid them.

[Corley5]

I couldn't agree more with keeping logs out of the dirt.  When ever possible I pick logs up in the woods with the front end loader on the tractor.  If it I can't get to it this way I get as close as I can and suck the log up to our Fransgard skidding winch and pick up the 3pt.  That way there's just a little dirt on one end.  I hate dirty logs too.

[Paul_H]

Bull,is right about the mud of course,but forwarders are expensive,and you gotta do what you gotta do to get logs.

Get enough logs,you can buy more machinery.Just more labour intensive in the meantime.

Besides,a forwarder might not be the best thing for Harold ;)

[ADfields]

When I do most of my loging hear all that will get in the bark is snow ;)   If ther is mud around hear you aint geting a  forwarder noplace neer the logs without a lot of riped up ground!
Andy

[wiam]

Andy   me too, and most of my land is too steep for a forwarder.

Will

[woodman]

How about a crane thats long to pick them up frome the road.

[Bro. Noble]

We have a 20,000 pound winch on a 3pt. with 100 yards of cable.  We have used most of the cable and 2 snatchblocks to get logs up bluffs and over outcroppings.  Some of those places are real hard to get to by foot.  A forwarder would be helpless in most of our timber.

Noble

[Gordon]

Why is it bad to use deep cycle batteries with a winch?

A'm I missing something?

I would think that a deep cycle would be better.

Gordon

[ADfields]

Deep cycle batteries have thick plates in them for a lot of run way down and charge back up for use without an onbord charging systom and a small but constant draw.   If you use a deep cycle on a winch the big draw all at once will damage it thats the same when used in a car the starters big sudden draw will damage it.   The "deep cycle" is to run the thing dry "deep" and then put a charger on it to fill it up befor you run it dry agan "cycle."   This works the other way as well if you run starting batteries dry or deep there thin plates cant take it and thay will be damaged in no time.   Deep cycle batteries have less cold cranking amps due to there thick plates, the plates relece less amps at a time to the acid becous thay have less serfice in contact with the acid.  

Thay do make a "starting deep cycle" now, kinda the best of both and that is what I use in my car and trucks now becous I think thay last beter hear with the long cranking times in the cold.   I do use 2 starting deep cycles to replace 1 standerd starting batt, I want around 1000 CCA total so I use 2 for 1.

I hope I made sence in how I put it. :P ???
Andy

[Kevin_H.]

I have been using a deep cycle battery on my winch, It just gave up the gost. I didnt have the winch on the trailer set up to charge off the truck, so I didnt want to use a reg.starting battery.
 
I also just replaced the battery in the bobcat, I bought a WalMart battery with 1000 CCA and a 3 yr replacement warranty, Might put the same on the winch.

[ADfields]

I get my starting deep cycles from Walmart and have had very good luck with them for going on 3 years now.   I did melt a post on one of them last winter due to arcing in the cheep cable end conector but I packed it back to Walmart and thay gave me a new one with no trouble, thay have a 1 year free replacement warranty then thay start the prorating thing.   I have been very happy with Walmart and the Champion batteries thay sell! 8)
Andy

[bull]

If you can't get to a tree without making a mess or wrecking the log then maybe the tree should be left in the woods... Did I say that ??????   I do all my logging and forwarding with a Kubota 4610 W/ loader and forks and a 14' Tandem axle trailer..  I have a 3pt skid plate no winch
also I only log with snow on the ground. I have to do some skidding around the wet areas but only short distances
 to a safe area where I can buck the logs and the move it with the forks to the trailer. Usually located on a maintained trail
No loggings roads in my lot.  100 + acres Mixed hard and softwood uneven aged on a 10 year cut plan w/ numbered plots.... something gets cut every year......

[D._Frederick]

ADFields,
I have been buying group 27 deep cycle batteries from local wholesale store and use them on my tractors. They  have plenty of CCA but have a problem with holding a charge, they will not turn an engine over after sitting for 30 days. Any thoughts about this?

[ADfields]

Is ther a draw in your systom?   My plow truck (76 F250) has 3 starting deep cycles in it and the small draw in the Sony radio will kill them flat in 3 or 4 weeks time.   I put a great big switch in the mane line and shut off all the power from them to the truck and it sat all summer without running down.   I dont know why but deep cycles seem to go dead like that from a very small draw that a starting bat can take just fine.   Take off the cable and with everything off out a amp meeter from the bat to the cable and see if you have a draw in the system, the fields in your altanator and other stuff can make sutch a draw.   The switches I use come from Napa for around $20 and also keeps people from joyriding your equipment when thay cant find it.

Hope that helps.
Andy

[Fla._Deadheader]

All lead acid batteries have a small internal "maintenance" draw that will "usually", not always, discharge them. It seems to work differently with all batteries. When I was younger, we found a 6 volt car battery that was dry inside. NO ACID. My brother-in-law took it home and added plain water, and used it in his jeep for 4 years. We KNOW that thing sat for over 6 years without a charge and probably no acid. Go figure !!!!

[Sailor]

Well, I think I have a winch story that will make you chuckle. I have a hyster winch on my D6 which will pull anything. So now that my sons are old enough I get the bright idea that two winches would be twice as fast when we are bringing in winter wood [we heat barns and house with 2-1 million BTU boilers] and logs for our sawmill. I go to my nearest "you can build anything" store and buy a driveshaft driven 12,000lb winch. I then build a beautiful winch tower with 3 point hitch attachment for another tractor on the farm. The big day arrives and we all gather around while dad [me] hooks up to one 10" log. The tractor snorts, the line draws taunt, the log starts to move, the log starts to move.... Why isn't the log moving? "Dad" someone yells, "the spool and the top of your winch tower are bending". Sure enough, the metal was collapsing before our very eyes. Back to the shop to remanufacture the tower. Retest. This time nothing bends, the log starts to move... the log starts to move...........Last thing I heard was this awful growl and a huge bang!!  ???I couldn't even disengage the winch, I ran to the tractor and shut off the PTO. The winch had almost disintegrated. I took it back to the "you can build anything" store and they take it apart. It had totally collapsed at two of the bearings and races, throwing pieces into the gears which were under such great pressure. You think any smart guy would say "that's it, let's chaulk that up to experience" and move on. So the guy at the "you can build anything" store says "have I got the winch for you and at such a bargain" it's the [I use my literary indulgence here] BINFORD 2000. Actually it was a 25,000 lb hydraulic [planetary gear setup] winch which had appeared in his shop from the far north shop. I couldn't resist. I remanufactured the tower and even painted it this time, I was so sure of my product. The big test............ Tractor revs up, check............hydraulics functioning, check..........winch goes out, comes in, check...............hook up to that same *DanG log [now that determination if not stupid, eh], check.........engage, check..............the log starts to move.............the log starts to move...........no the tractor starts to move but I am prepared for such a problem, I lower the large braking teeth on the bottom of my winch platform deep into the graound and the tractor stops moving...........the log begins to move.................I said the log BEGINS TO MOVE....... no but the last thing I heard was this awful growl then a very large bang and oil was spraying out of every orfice of the winch and covering everyone in attendance. The moral is, if you have one very good winch and many good sons, make them do a little more work. It's good for them and you don't get as frustrated. Randy

[ADfields]

What was the log made of, led?  

[Fla._Deadheader]

A 10 " log, a 10 INCH log ???  Man, ya gotta cross the border and get some "made in the USA" stuff, EH ???  :D :D :D :D :D

[pigman]

Sailor, I  am not the sharpest tack in the box, but I finally learned to cut the tree before I tried to drag the log. : ;D

[Jeff]

 :D

[SawInIt CA]

Funny story

[J Beyer]

Have any fo you hydraulic winch guys use something similar to an auxillary transmission cooler with a small fan?  Seems that this setup being used as a power steering cooler would work well, just have to figure out what hoses to use that can stand up to the pressures.

Any home-made or catalog coolers that can do the job of the estup described above?  Post some pics if you have  them.

JB

[DanG]

At about 10pm this evening, there came a knock at my door.  A glance through the peep-hole revealed one of the engineers for the railroad that runs behind our house. He was a little nervous and breathless, as he explained that he had run off into the ditch, and wondered if I could pull him out. After clarifying that it was his truck, and NOT the train that was stuck, I grabbed my coat and a couple of flashlights and we headed out. I finally had a chance to put the new MileMarker winch to the test. His full-sized Chevy P/U was nosed into a 3 ft ditch with the left front, and the right rear was about 2 ft off the ground. I hooked the cable to the trailer hitch and snatched it right out, with the engine idling. It never even strained. I think that, for once, I have bought the right tool for the job. I also have dragged a 24", 12' oak log over soft ground, with the winch in high gear.
If any of you are planning to spend close to a Grand on a big electric winch, you really should look into this rig. It is hydraulic, and works off of the power steering pump of the truck. I have mind bolted to a frame I welded to the truck frame,  just behind the cab.

[sawmill_john]

Hey Dan isn't it fun to use those things on some one elses stuff!
I've been looking at these winches pictured below, I first saw them last you at a event called Tree school thats put on by the Oregon State Extention Service, I have to say it is one of the finest made winches I've seen, it has a two speed gear box, 20' remote control, special motors (not ford starter motors), anti-snarl/drag brake device, built in fairlead, and a lifetime warranty on the winch unit itself (not electrical components).  
We're looking real hard at using them on our mills as an option.  I do have to tell you the units are not cheap but I have found you do get what you pay for, I'm the first one to look for something thats a good deal, but all to many times bought a cheap tool that turned out to cost more time and effort than getting the good one would have cost. 




I couldn't find a website on the info I have but I'll call them up and see if they have some thing.  Heres their phone number,
MW-Worldwide
Portland OR
(503)288-1245


I spoke with the owner of MW-Worldwide and their website is currently down, when they get it back up I'll find itr and pass it on.  I did find out that Mark Havel(Future Forestry) is using this brand of winch on his large log arch.

[Vermonter]

I like my Fransguard tractor winch, but I just picked up a Warn electric when I was down in Maryland at the Peterson delivery.  (Thanks Jim).  This means I will be able to skid things around at sites without the tractor.
I looked at Milemarkers, they used to sell a retrofit power steering pump with higher capacity and pressure, and also sold an oil cooler.  Their price for the PS pump was reasonable.  I put together a design for using the ps pump for the dump body (slow but effective).  Instead, it looks like electrics on both ends of the old Dodge now.

[Frank_Pender]

I went out to Mark's place a few weeks ago and saw the new LARGER ARCH  it is a real piece of equipment.  He had just hauled home a 30" x 16' Big Leaf Maple, down the county road with his white Volvo stationwagon.  :D I tried to get him to bring the log to me, but he has some promotional video to get produced, first. :'(

[SWAMPRAT]

I winch very few logs, as I am just getting into this whole log milling, cutting, bucking, felling thing, but as far as winches go, South Louisiana is the testing grounds for a good winch....Swamps 360 degrees when you leave the roads.

I have found that the following settup gives me the best results for my Warn truck winch.  First thing I did was put a high output altenator on my Chevy Z71.  145 Amp brushless altenator.  http://www.electrodyne.com/Welcome.html

I then removed the underhood storage container, and added the optional second battery tray. (I purcased from the local chevy dealer.  They leave room for second batteries as the same truck is available with a diesel engine which comes with two)  The key to my rig has been the TWO Interstate 1000's that have for batteries, neither is a deep cycle, just the standard 1000 CCA Interstate battery.  

I hooked up the one main battery just as the factory battery was, then I ran a piece of #2 Welding lead from the Positive lead on one battery to the positive lead on the second battery.  I placed a Ford fender mounted starter solenoid  between the two batteries and wired it to the ignition.  So now, when I turn on the truck, the power from the ignition engages the solenoid conecting both of the batteries.  As long as the vehicle is running, both batteries are charging.  As well, if I ever leave me headlights or cargo light on and drain my main battery, as soon as I turn the key, the truck jump starts itself.

After rigging the batteries, I connected my Warn 8000 to the secondary battery, not long ago, (October) during the 2 days after Hurricane Lili, I winched more than I ever have before, trees, trucks, stumps, cars, and of smaller items, but one thing stands out the most.  An 18 wheeler tractor trying to go around a downed tree in the road slipped off into a 2-3 foot ditch, I used 2 snatchblocks and let out all but about 15 feet of cable (enough to leave one spool full on the winch) and pulled the truck from the ditch.  Not once was the winch starved for juice with the above setup.  Since then, I have pu the same setup in the wifes car, and my nieghbors SUV...

Just what works for me...After talking with the techs at warn, and talking with the local high fi car stereo shop this is what we came up with.  Matter of factly, the Car Stereo shop had most of the stuff I needed,  Altenators, solenoids, and wires to complete the job, they even gave me some of the black corregated wire tubes to cover the wires and make it look factory installed.  Most of these young kids with these booming trunks dont realize they have the perfect winch setup under there hoods!!!!! :D :D

[ADfields]

SWAMPRAT
A ford "starter" solenoid will burn out in about 10 minuts of constant use like that, it's a "starter relay" not a "constant relay" for a use thats on all the time.   What you have looks just like a ford relay but is a constant relay so if it stops working dont ask for a ford relay as it wont last turned on all the time like that, ask for a constant relay.
Andy

[Andre]

I think he has it setup so the solenoid only connects the second battery to the first battery when starting the engine.  The winch only runs off the second battery, the truck normally only runs off the first battery but both battieries are charged by the alternator, likly thru some kind of isolator.

[DanG]

When I was into off-shore fishing, my boat had 2 batteries. They were connected to a large,  heavy duty rotary switch, which had 4 positions: Off, Left, Right, and Both. I'm sure you could still get one, for a nominal fee, of course, at a Marine Supply store.  It would be just the ticket for this application.