Showing my lgnerense

Fla._Deadheader · November 25, 2002, 03:21:29 PM

About time we discussed some things here.

   I have NEVER heard of a load of logs described as a "Whack", until I landed here.

  I have never heard of buying and selling logs "by the ton". That sounds like a "pulpwood" thing.

   Am I that old or that far out of touch with reality ??????????????
  Help me guys, PLEASE !!!!

  How many board feet in a ton ??????????????

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 04:11:15 PM

You cannot convert weight to board foot. I know of no logs that are sold by weight only pulp or chips.

As for whack, you aint took the time to find the origin of the whack rules? shame shame.

Fla._Deadheader · November 25, 2002, 04:45:08 PM

You need to visit me fer Christmas then. You could learn along with me !!! 8) 8)

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 05:00:28 PM

https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=sawmill;action=display;num=1006903197;start=8

The origin of the best log rule ever invented

Tillaway · November 25, 2002, 05:08:33 PM

Small diameter sawlogs are scaled by the ton in the Western US. It's far too costly to roll out scale 100 to 200 pieces per truck. Most mills give you an option to wieght scale even the large log loads. This is done by the logger putting only one sort on a truck and roll out scaling and wieghing say, every fifth load with the rest passing over only the scales. It works real well and keeps costs down but all your logs have to be similar.

Fla._Deadheader · November 25, 2002, 05:26:49 PM

OK. You convinced me. I'm now, "whacked out".

On an udder angle. I just remembered that a Heart Pine Sinker log is "supposed" to weigh 64 1/2 pounds per cubic foot. Maybe one of you rithmetic geniuses can convert that to square (board) feet. My brain hurts tonight !!! Use any size-length to determine the footage.

Today I was quoted $100.00-$125.00 per ton for my Cypress. I made it clear that this was NOT modern growth, which IS traded by the ton. Didn't matter ??????

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 05:49:19 PM

Cubic foot =12 board feet

Thats about 31 cubic feet per ton or 372 board feet

so thats $3.72 per bf at $100 or 4.65 per bf at $125

Fla._Deadheader · November 25, 2002, 06:06:06 PM

OK. Then figger me a log that's got 18 inches of heart and it's 14 feet long. By the ton and board feet, thank you very much. I really appreciate your assistance, by the way, Jeff.

Bro. Noble · November 25, 2002, 06:09:32 PM

I don't think so !

I get about 27 cents/bdft @ $100/ ton and about 34 cents at 125/ton.

Noble

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 06:22:05 PM

international scale the heartwood would yield 203 board foot.

203/12 to get back to cubic feet 16.91666 X your 64.5 = lb per cubic foot =1091.12 lbs which you can roughly multiply by 2 to get estimated weith of the heartwood, I get 2182.24 lbs or 1.09 tons

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 06:25:50 PM

Noble, we are taking 2 different animals, maybe 3. We are paid by the ton for our chips, after they take a sample and determine the moisture content, then they pay on the adjusted weight. So, wet or dry spring or summer, we are getting payed about the same for the fiber.

Dead header I am guessing is being payed on the theory of what saturated cypress weighs.

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 06:28:57 PM

i think noble is right

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 06:34:28 PM

I have come to the conclusion that I do not know how to do this by weight. I do know that a log that is 16" by 14ft has 203 bf international.

Fla._Deadheader · November 25, 2002, 06:41:47 PM

Whoa, whoa. Back up the truck here. Jeff, if that particular log weighed 1.09 tons, at $100.00 and 203 feet of scale, wouldn't that be .50/bdft and at $125.00 / ton about .625/bdft?? Am I "whacked out" here??

Bro. Noble · November 25, 2002, 06:53:12 PM

Jeff,

Why did you multiply it by 2? Otherwise it would have been about 25 and 31 cents.

Harold's gonna end up like that Canadian Mountie if we don't watch out.

Noble

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 06:54:22 PM

I said, the only thing I know for sure is the international scale figure. The weight is my estimate.

Tillaway · November 25, 2002, 06:56:13 PM

Deadheader, you need to be more specific on log size. The cubic foot to board foot ratio varies by log diameter. It's easy to figure when you have the large and small end diameter, and length, also you need the scale rules that are applied by your buyer. Give me an example and I'll figure it for you.

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 06:57:58 PM

I multiply by two because the weght is for the whole log not just the lumber. you have to figure in the weight of the by products. slabs, sawdust, around 50% for an average is what we usually figure, depending on the log size

RMay · November 25, 2002, 07:00:00 PM

In south Arkansas all of our pine & H.W. tree length logs or sold by the ton most of the mills will not scale . pine logs is about 6 to 7 tons per 1000 b.f. it will very from mill to mill .

Tillaway · November 25, 2002, 07:12:31 PM

Lets see a 14" 14' log weighs 965 lbs. Scales at 119 bf International. That means its $405.46 per mbf @ $100 / ton, or 506.83 per mbf @ $125 / ton. :P

Fla._Deadheader · November 25, 2002, 07:15:08 PM

Tillaway. This is gettin WAY over my head. Jeff hit it close on the Intl. scale On this particular log, 18" dia X 14 feet= 200 bdft Intl. There is about 1 1/2 " of sapwood. The butt end measures 19 1/2" of heart with about 2" of sapwood

Ron just posted on another thread that logs became sinkers at 62.4 pounds per cuft. My weight seems about right. How can one outfit pay $2.00 bdft for logs and the rest can't pay even $1.00 ???? How much difference is there between Doyle and Intl. scale?? I bought by Doyle when I lived in Arkansas, and gave an inch for real good logs.????

Jeff · November 25, 2002, 07:20:07 PM

Dead head use this calculator to see doyle, international and scribner

http://www.timberbuyer.net/sawlogbf.htm

Tillaway · November 25, 2002, 07:31:59 PM

Using your last example and allowing for the wieght of the sap you would be getting 517.55 mbf @ $100. $646.94 mbf @ $125. Thats for 18" heart 14' long.

Fla._Deadheader · November 25, 2002, 07:43:35 PM

Thanks guys. Appreciate the help. My head hurts. Going to bed.

Ron Wenrich · November 26, 2002, 03:11:06 AM

One reason I don't like to see sawlogs sold by the ton is that weight will vary, depending on density. Slower growing trees will weigh more.

Is quality a factor on that cypress? Most quality logs are scaled. Defect is figured in and a footage factor is applied.

There is no direct relationship of board foot to cubic foot in the log form. In Jeff's example of using the Int scale, at 14" the bf/cuft would be 6.85. At 18" the ratio is 7.30. Contrary to popular belief, size does matter.

Cubic footage can be determined by either measuring both ends or measuring in the middle of the log. From there, you could put in your weight and come up with a dollar per thousand.

You can make out pretty well with small logs by the ton. But, for the larger logs, scale would be the best.

Do you need a calculator for cubic footage? We could design one in pretty short order. The weight thing might take a little more time, but can be done. We could also do one that compares cubic footage to scaled footage.