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Burning Blades

Started by Fla._Deadheader, April 27, 2006, 08:30:35 PM

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Fla._Deadheader


Getting frustrated. Get the saw running like new, and suddenly, blade binds and gets a blue spot. ???  What's wrong ???????????
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Tom

I'll bet your log moved.

Fla._Deadheader


  24" + log, both sides shaved down for a 12" cant. Cut 80% down the log, and the blade binds. Just made cut in other direction, real sweet. Cut returning is sweet, UNTIL  >:( >:(
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Don P

Any tension in the log? Blade out of plane in either direction? Insufficient set?

Fla._Deadheader


Brand new Blade. Most logs here have tension. This is Guyanasa ??  Cuts like Pine, then turns to cotton chips ??? This can happen within 3 feet. ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Don P

QuoteCuts like Pine, then turns to cotton chips

A section of smooth cutting wood then a section of fuzzy tension wood followed quickly by the burn?

Fla._Deadheader


Ya just described Cedro Amargo, DonP. This stuff cuts similar to Red Oak, then, the stringy sawdost turns to cotton fibres. Acts like the teeth go from sharp to dull, in 3 feet ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Don P

I'm guessing you need a conversation with a blade pro. There must be something that can sever the fuzzy inner G layer thats pulling out and dragging the body of the blade (IF that's what the problem is  ???).
I'm guessing its tooth geometry and then you'll need something that will hold that edge is in those woods you guys are getting  ???.

Fla._Deadheader


This is a Peterson Swing Mill. There is no wrapping of fibre around the blade. The stringy dust goes from coarse to very fine, REAL quick.

  I use plenty of water, and this thing cuts really nice, then trouble ???  It has the 20 HP Honda, so, I'm not running too hard. Turned up the throttle a ½ turn today, and it cuts better than ever. ???

 
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

getoverit

I was wondering if you were using homey or the Peterson. I have had some pine do that to me, but it was tension in the wood and I was making a horizontal cut when it happened.

Hope the increased blade speed solved the problem :)
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Fla._Deadheader

 YEP, Tension AND Horizontal cut.  It happens so quick, I can't believe it.  ::)

  I AM double cutting, a 12" cant. Only taking a 6¼" bite with an 8" blade.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

getoverit

I did a google search for Guyanasa wood, and came up blank. I would like to see what kind of wood you have there. Sounds like good stuff :) Could it be spelled some other way?
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Fla._Deadheader

 Probably is :D :D :D :D

  I will be back on here Tuesday or Wednesday, and MIGHT get some photos by then ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

DanG

Could it be a knot that you k-not get past?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Fla._Deadheader


Nope. First 3 cuts of the trees are knot free ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

woodbowl

How hard is that Guyanasa compaired to our live oak Harold? Do you get  swirl marks that indicate the blade angle?
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

brdmkr

FDH

I have that happen in pecan (right DanG) with the Lucas.  I have even had it happen in red oak in knots.  It is much worse in the horizontal cut than in the vertical.  I hate the only fix I have come up with and that is to take small horizontal cuts.  I can only take a 6" cut with my 618, but I only go 3 - 4 inches at a time in the horizontal and this seems to fix things.  I rarely have this problem in the vertical.  I really don't understand why???  At first I thought it could be log movement with the extra side-to-side torque associated with the horizontal cut, but then I have had it happen in logs that were HUGE, so I knew no movement was occuring.  Maybe some of the Peterson, Lucas or Double Cut folks could chime in with a technical description of what causes this and maybe a few suggestions???

Forgot to add, I tried really pouring the water to the blade but that did not help.  I have never noticed the blade getting hot however.   Just binding and producing cotton fibers on the cut face.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

crtreedude

Gallinaso is a very soft wood on our side of the mountain - it is used for concrete forms.

By the way, the name means "Chicken droppings" - cleaned up a tad...

Chicken =  Gallina

No, I wouldn't consider it particularly good wood.
So, how did I end up here anyway?

crtreedude

Perhaps the rails aren't completely straight?
So, how did I end up here anyway?

woodbowl

Quote from: brdmkr on April 28, 2006, 09:22:35 AM

I rarely have this problem in the vertical.  I really don't understand why???  At first I thought it could be log movement with the extra side-to-side torque associated with the horizontal cut, but then I have had it happen in logs that were HUGE, so I knew no movement was occuring. 

Mike, could it be, ...... could it possibly be that there is a very slight, unnoticable sagging occuring in the rails or a ground/settlement situation happening with the frame, after the weight of the unit starts to travel? If binding doesn't happen in the vertical and if this were the case, the blade would simply cut a little deeper, so .................. have you noticed any scoring marks after the cut when in the vertical mode that would indicate that ground/settlement ect. may be happening?

I can't help wondering what would happen if a rigid and true track was used in the same situation and log.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

brdmkr

Olen, You may be on to something.  I have never thought about that.  I have never really noticed if it tends to happen more with longer logs when there is a greater distance betwen the uprights.  That is a very good question.  If that is the case. it seems like the WPF with the low-low option and the Brand-X would not have that problem.  FDH are you using a WPF or ATS.  If WPF, is it Low-low or hi-low?

One thing I just thought of though, it seems that the problems would most often occur in the center of the log under that scenario.  I am not sure if that is what I observe.  It seems to me that it occurs in from the center to the end.  Seldom at the start of the cut. ??? ???
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Fla._Deadheader


If I can cut boards from a log, 24" in dia. , and they are exactly on the money, how can the tracks or anything else be out enough to cause this problem ??  I am double cutting for 12" boards. Can't do that on the vertical, so, horizontal is the only option.

  Guess I gotta import one-O-dem hand made band mills down here.  ::) ::)

  Hills are so steep, it's gonna be tough to pull a bandmill around and into some places.  ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Tom

I'm not a circle sawyer or swing mill sawyer, but I still think the log moved.

when I am cutting a log from just one side, it eventually begins to bow up as the tension of the topside is relieved. It might not be much but it moves.

i also run into a tracking problem when the wood is of varying densities.  Rotten (punky) wood has an adverse affect on a bandblade and can cause it to dive or rise in the cut as it seeks stability.  I can see how a circle blade, if affected by wood density, could heat.

If the cant, or log, is moving due to stress relief, then the blade is being pinched or pushed out of its desired alignment.  this would give the same indication as a track being out of level.

If this is a possibility, then it could be proven or disproven that the log had moved by making a second pass over the same area without moving the blade.  A high spot would get trimmed off.  It wouldn't have to be much.


woodbeard

I agree with Tom. You can check to see if the log bowed by running the sawhead up and down it with the blade a little bit above your last cut ( engine off ) and see if the gap increases or decreases as you go along.
Sometimes you just have to take a bunch of smaller passes when this happens. This will release the tension gradually, and keep the kerf open as well.

NZJake

Gidday Herold,

Woodbeards correct, when dealing with tensioned logs its best to re-skim occasionally to clear the flared tension slab before making your next large horizontal cut. If your doublecutting, you have to use wedges to keep the slab from falling on the blade (especially with the kind of dense wood your dealing with). It is also important to get your criss-cross spot on horizontally when doublecutting, if its out a bit you'll have apposing horizontal lead when cutting on either side of your 12" board (this can cause blade burn and a larger step between cuts if not carefull).

Because of your machines age and use, a consideration maybe that the pivot axis bush has become worn. This would lead to irregular change of criss cross while cutting. Ussually this occurs worst on the belt side. The fix is simply tighten both 15/16 hex nuts togather on both sides of the pivot block assembly. This will flare the bush out taking up any wear.
Wife says I woke up one morning half asleep uttering thin kerf and high production, I think I need a hobby other than milling?

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