Mods or Mizer - help me identify stuff on this mill

tomboysawyer · April 21, 2006, 06:29:13 PM

I just picked up a used Woodmizer and am SO excited about it. I've been making sawdust for 7000bf with an old Norwood Lumbermate and wanted to step up to milling alone so my hubby can get out in the woods and cut the trees.

However, the guy I bought the mill from knew very little about it and I'm starting to realize that a lot of this mill has been modified. I'd like to know approximately what year the mill is. If there is something I can do, take measurements or other pictures, to help the Woodmizer folks, I'll gladly do it.

The machine has obviously been repowered. The blade and sawhead hydraulics are powered by a Vanguard G18 which seems to be in pretty nice shape (I'll miss my Honda on the Norwood most of all).

It also seems to me that if Woodmizer every had hydraulics on the carriage, they were not set up like this:

This is a 10hp gasoline Techumsah running a pump and going to a distribution box where one lever runs the log clamp, one the log turner, and the third runs both the toe adjustment AND the log loaders.

The back side and "plumbing" for the carriage hydraulics.

The log turner looks just like others I've seen on Woodmizers.

The log loaders and toe adjustment definitely look homemade - but functional.

Of course, with all that, I'm not sure what else is all standard or modified on the machine. It has a dual chain for vertical movement of the head. The previous owner said the only mod he did was to add a valvle on the horizontal movement so the head would move on its own and you didn't have to walk with it. Also not sure if the supports, back supports, etc. are original or modified. It would just really help to know for servicing and chasing parts.

Any help you all can be in helping get an age and information on this mill would be really appreciated!!

Bibbyman · April 21, 2006, 08:34:30 PM

Welcome to the Forum tomboysawyer.

It don't look like there's much of the Wood-Mizer left there. Looks more like a Frankin-Mizer!

I'd call Wood-Mizer Monday with the serial number and get the ownership transfered to your name. They can tell you a lot about the mill.

All the hydraulics look like they've been added. But you already know that.

Looks like an early 80's model.

tomboysawyer · April 21, 2006, 09:49:55 PM

Thank you, Bibbyman. A welcome from you is an honor. Saw Mary in a recent article.

I tried the e-mail thing with Woodmizer and didn't get very far. I can't find a serial number and don't know where to look to scrape the paint off first. Suggestions?

JRC · April 21, 2006, 10:06:29 PM

I've owned 4 Woodmizers, the first was a new LT40 in June 1986 to my currert LT40 Super hydraulic. Some of the parts on your saw look simialar to WM but I don't believe from the photo's you have a WM mill. It looks more like a home made copy, shortly after I got my first mill there was a couple guys come to look at mine about three times and were going to build one like it. There are a lot of mills around me as I'm only about 20 miles from the mill manufacturing plant and 80 miles from the Indy office. If it is a WM find the serial number and they will tell you when it was manufactured.
Good Luck
John

Bibbyman · April 21, 2006, 10:36:14 PM

It may be a copy. There are a lot of things that look right and a few things that don't. I noted that the center blade shield door on your mill hinges up where all the other's I've seen hinge down.

Here is a link to my web site where I have some photos of a very early LT30. I know it's missing the shield over the main drive pulley but it may be off as Will Baugh was servicing it.

Pictures of early Wood-Mizer

Jeff · April 21, 2006, 10:45:14 PM

Isnt the serial number up on top of the mast somewhere? Sure looks likethe bones of wood-mizer underneath to me. To copy a lot of the small things they would have almost had to have one sitting and availabe to measure from. I guess its possible, but you would thingthat they would have changed the little things just as much in fabrication if they were going to make the major changes such as the hydraulic drive and such.

Jeff · April 21, 2006, 10:46:15 PM

By the way, welcome to the forum tomboysawyer, and beware of the bibbyman imposters. ;)

Corley5 · April 21, 2006, 11:29:23 PM

I like your mill. It looks like someone put some thought into the mods and did nice job making them. Welcome to the Forestry Forum 8)

Buzz-sawyer · April 21, 2006, 11:32:16 PM

Hey Tomboy....I got an idear....you explainyour hydraulics and the guy currently building some for his mill(Getoverit), an learn bout em, and others can chime into you ;)

tomboysawyer · April 22, 2006, 02:23:01 AM

Okay. So the more pictures I look at the more it seems to me the head saw was not originally hydraulic either. But there are definitely Woodmizer pieces on it.

For one thing, the belt tensioner/clutch system has the exact same parts as far as handle, clutch pulley, and all the hardware for that brake pad as this picture except I'm missing the brake pad part:

The horizontal drive uses a single chain that, at least in pictures, looks a lot like these older mills - although Bibbyman's picture has two chains.

The welding on the track/carriage, the orientation of headsaw members, etc. is identical to this old LT30, but my frame is definitely bigger.

It would have to have been the ultimate in flattery, this mill was originally orange (and I'm working on making it orange again).

I'd be happy to do much more detailed pictures and descriptions of the hydraulics on this machine. Whomever did this work really knew how to install hydraulics. Everything is very nicely done.

And, Bibbyman, all three of the blade shield covers have been manufactured - nicely done but not Woodmizer. But the wheel alignment mechanism for the tension wheel is identical with a slightly different tensioning system.

I was gonna call my new mill "Woody" (my old one was "Millie" - Norwood Lumbermate Mark IV), but I'm thinking about Frankenmizer instead now. Since I have no Woodmizer graphics, thought I'd clean it up and put my own stuff on it. I figure I'm going from an orange mill to "the" orange mill. The Norwood had a few mods, but nothing like this.

Bibbyman · April 22, 2006, 08:48:34 AM

One thing I noted was the dust chute hole added to the end. I've never seen a round one like this on any WM mill. There are a couple of studs above it. Looks like it could have been a mod for a dust collection hose setup.

As far as the chains, the double chain drive is a very early type. Many were converted to the single. Also note the single chain on the head lift on the mill Will is running vs. the double up/down chain on your mill. That would indicate it was a later version or one that had been updated.

I'm just wondering if it's an early variation.

Is Sparks with us this morning?

getoverit · April 22, 2006, 11:34:25 AM

While my bandmill isnt a woodmizer or anything close to it, I'm sure some of these mods on hydraulics will work on mine. Please keep up the good work of posting pics and explanations on how these things work? I'm sucking all of this info up like a sponge

I do have a question about the log loader. I can see how this works, but I an wondering how it is retracted for travel down the road? Do you have to manually pick it up or is there some other way it is powered up and out of the way for travel? Also, does your mill incorporate the stops and the log loader on the same hydraulic circuit? I could see where this would save some money to do it that way and also be some insurance that the loaded log doesnt just roll off the other side of the mill.

tomboysawyer · April 22, 2006, 07:57:43 PM

Got my first cut in and then the carriage engine didn't want to stay running while under load adjusting the toe board. No fuel shut off. Engine oil seems more like gasoline than oil. Shut down for day until we change out the oil on both engines.

GetOverIt: Hubby seems to think the loading arms are light enough to lift up onto the mill by hand - I haven't tried. But with two people on it, they were pretty controlled going down. I'm thinking there is also the option of lifting the arms by hydraulics, chaining them to the mill, then pulling the outriggers up. Hubby points out the fact they aren't connected makes the manual operation easier (because they are lighter). However, right now, log loading is still a two person task since he put weight on individual arms to keep the log level as I raised it from the front of the mill.

As for the dual circuit - there are no hydraulics for back stops - just lots of varying lengths of metal and some pin holes. The dual circuit for the loading arms is with the toe board adjustment. There's only one toe board adjuster and it is on the tongue end of the mill.

My Norwood left today to a newbie sawyer in Colonie, NY who had been offered two scam "Second Chance" offers on eBay for my new mill. He had contacted me to see if I was really picking up the Woodmizer. I had a softspot for him and he is really excited about his new mill. Anyway, I got to spend more time today learning about "Frankenmizer" while waiting for him and after he left (in the rain). Now that I'm more familiar with how all these parts work together I'll get a message up here with details on each hydraulic function on this mill. Some of them are darned ingeneous. Some stuff doesn't make sense (like all these manual back stops that are usually too big).

Bibbyman helped me understand my mill is supposed to have a brake. My machine most recently had cotton web strapping like they use for cinching on tractor trailer loads. I had some kicking around. It looks like the one in his picture uses some kind of spring steel. I'll be calling Woodmizer Monday to find out about a replacement brake band. I don't think the cotton strap can really last all that long (although it is darned cheap and it does work).

Jeff · April 22, 2006, 08:47:58 PM

The break strap is very similar to what a truck strap is. Not sure if the material is the same but very similar. Could be something heat resistant in it as well though. Looks like there is still a chunk of yours left in this photo.

woodbeard · April 22, 2006, 09:04:17 PM

Wow, thats cool! 8) I thought my mill was a Frankenmizer, but yours definitely deserves the title. ;D
I can even picture some mad scientist/mechanic welding and fitting away under the full moon, sparks flying.... Its.. ALIVE!!!!

Tom · April 22, 2006, 09:38:00 PM

It's going to take a Wood Mizer guy to research the age of this thing. But, just for the fun, I put some guesses and stuff together to see if, by luck, they agree with them.

It's gotta be an old Woodmizer and either an LT30 or LT40. The only difference will be length. The 30 cuts 16 feet and the 40 cuts 20 feet.

Leather was used a lot on these older mills. the brake strap in picture one, that Jeff noted, is probably a leather strap. It might be one of the newer laminated leather with plastic between straps. I've used flat belt for brake and it works good if you can find one about 1 1/2 wide.

The pad on the tower of the head is probably leather as well. They were attached with bolts. The parts are pretty generic and you should have no problem getting them from Wood Mizer. That pad is something that needs to be fixed, even thought the mill will work without it.

You're right about the hydraulics. I don't think this mill had any originally. It was probably a manual mill and might be old enough that hydraulics weren't available. None of the log handling options are hydraulic but have been modified to be so or are built by the previous owner.

The clutch handle places the age pre-1995 because the direction of pull was changed from sideways to "toward the operator" in '95 or 96.

The log turner appears to be a true Wood Mizer option.

The frame has the smaller tubing used pre-1990 and I would guess that the straight outside beam would place the age in the 1985 to '87 range. The shot of the rear of the axle makes me think this is an LT30.

I vaguely remember a round sawdust shoot on a pre 1985 LT30 when I was in Indianapolis. Memory may be failing me, but, if that is true then I would think that the mill is probably pre-'85. Not too many people change the shrouds.

I don't know what that windless looking handle on the back of the power side shroud is.

It looks like the loader arms were designed following Wood Mizer's design except that they aren't joined together. I think you could raise them like the regular loader is raised and us the hydraulics for most of the work.

Raise the loader to its uppermost reaches. This balances the loader arms with the weight of the pads that rest on the ground.

Attach the arms to the frame of the mill with a chain on a chain hook.

Now, lower the loader. ( The arms will not be able to go down and so the pads will have to come up. Bring them all the way to the loader arms and you are ready for the road.

Reverse the procedure to set the loader on the ground. This way, the counter balancing of the arms and pads will keep you from straining your back.

Yep! I'm guessing that the mill was built from a pre '85 manual LT30.

Now I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Bibbyman · April 22, 2006, 10:15:27 PM

The break strap on our 94 mill broke and I replaced it with a section of a tug from a draft horse harness. Tom's comments brought that memory back. It was still working fine years later when I sold the mill. I wonder if it's still working?

sawguy21 · April 22, 2006, 10:18:00 PM

Welcome tomboysawyer. I am impressed with your pics and descriptions. You definately want to add a fuel shutoff to that Tecumseh. The carb float will bounce during transport allowing the engine to flood with gas which then runs past the rings into the crankcase. I am curious about the second engine though. Could they not have incorporated it's functions into the main system or is there not enough hydraulic capacity? Was it possibly a later addition?

getoverit · April 22, 2006, 10:26:32 PM

Thanks for the explanation of how the loader arms work. I'm pretty sure I understand the principal now.

Keep the pics and explanations coming !

Jeff · April 22, 2006, 10:28:00 PM

QuoteI don't know what that windless looking handle on the back of the power side shroud is.

Tom, that is for the movable blade guide. My 86 has one but I like tomboysawyer's better. Mine just has a knurled knob whick I can't hardly turn most of the time. Her's has handles.

Tom · April 22, 2006, 10:30:47 PM

That knurled knob is the only one I can remember having seen and they aren't on the shroud. Those I've seen are up there by the gas tank. You're probably right. \

Do you see the moveable guide?

Jeff · April 22, 2006, 10:51:14 PM

The guide adjusting wheel is mounted exactly where mine is and uses a plastic coated 1/16" cable to move the guide that you alse see in the photo on the right lower side sliding through the rollers just below the blade tensioner

Tom · April 22, 2006, 10:59:33 PM

Yes, I see the cable on it now.

Bibbyman · April 22, 2006, 11:08:37 PM

Quote from: sawguy21 on April 22, 2006, 10:18:00 PM
Welcome tomboysawyer. I am impressed with your pics and descriptions. You definately want to add a fuel shutoff to that Tecumseh. The carb float will bounce during transport allowing the engine to flood with gas which then runs past the rings into the crankcase. I am curious about the second engine though. Could they not have incorporated it's functions into the main system or is there not enough hydraulic capacity? Was it possibly a later addition?

It'd be very difficult to run the hydraulics on the frame and on the sawhead from the same pump system as the head moves back and forth.

I'm real sure all the hydraulics were homemade. The truning arm does look to be Wood-Mizer I did the same thing on our 94 manual.

tomboysawyer · April 23, 2006, 07:58:26 AM

Quote from: Jeff B on April 22, 2006, 08:47:58 PM
The break strap is very similar to what a truck strap is. Not sure if the material is the same but very similar. Could be something heat resistant in it as well though. Looks like there is still a chunk of yours left in this photo.

Right. I figured that out and it is just cotton webbing. That gave me a clue for what I could replace it with.

I'll get a tape measure up there. It looks to me like I can cut a 20' log on it - and I hope I can because I need some 17 footers for my project. I realized after I got home I never got a good shot of the whole machine at once.