Parbuckling Big Logs

[Ga_Boy]

I am working with DR_Buck (Dave) on a project.  It will involve parbuckling four very large logs.  Here is a pictrue Dave took, I am 5' 9" tall. 

****EDIT I forgot to mention that Dan Shade is working on the project as well.   Sorry about that Dan.******

We calculated the diameter to be 5' 3";  this thing is 16' 6" circumfurance.  By calculations the logs will weigh 10,000 pounds each.

Our plan is parbuckle these beasts on to our trailers and hual them out.  I have never parbuckled anything this big.   Any suggestions or advise?






Dave and I will mill all saw logs we can git out of this thing.  Between his LT-40 and My Swinger, once we get the logs out we will make use of all this thing.






Mark

[Furby]

Thoughts.........
BIG trailer,
HEAVY ramps,
A double ASS,
Why not mill on the spot?

[Bob Smalser]

Having done it on construction sites with short timelines, I usually prefer to pack my Lucas in and the lumber out with the F250 rather than the logs out with the Peterbilt.



This record Pacific Madrone lower log was around 9,000 pounds at 60"DBH...we had to be outta there that day....and we couldn't ootch it onto the Pete with the 6000lb-capacity log loader.  There was no room on the site for any high-speed rigging....

...so we ripped it.

[Part_Timer]

Mark

Would it make any sence to cut cant's where it lays with your swinger then recut them with the band mill off location?

just wondering

Tom

[stumpy]

Another hint for Parbuckling.  Most ilustrasions show running the winch cable out over the log then passing it underneath and connecting it to the trailer.  Instead, I like to run a log chain down from the top of one ramp to the groaund at the bottom of the ramps and back up to the top of the other ramp.  You then simply roll the log onto the loop and connect the winch line over the top of the log and connect to the chain loop.  This gives 2 advantages.  1) it's easier to hook up.  2) it keeps the log rolling up fairly straight. When using only the winch line, it's tough to keep the log going up straight.

[Ga_Boy]

This is a stright up removal job.  The property is up for sale so the home owner wants the mess gone and and the lawn patched with sod so it will look like the tree was never there.  This property is an Estate in Northern Virginia, big houses with full time staffs to keep them running.

If we mill it on site (that was the first proposal) then we gotta clean up the mess.  The current proposal has us in and out in three days.  The first day there is a crew of eight workers, a chipper and a stump grinder clearing out and cutting everything into saw log length.  We are hualing the chips to a dump site a few miles away.  On day two Dave, Dan Shade and I (3 parts of the crew of 8 ) start hualing out the smaller stuff.  On day three we move the four big logs from the main trunk.

Kirk,

I do not understand your last part on parbuckling...  Can you cear this up?


Stumpy,

I do not have a mental picture of what you are describing.   Are you hooking the chains back to the front of the trailer?

[Jeff]

Thats a dandy! I'm looking forward to the sawing photos!

[Furby]

Stumpy is hooking each end of a chain to the top of the ramps where they meet the trailer.
The winch line is then connected to the middle point of the chain after going over the log.

Kirk is saying to keep the truck on the far side of the trailer so the log don't roll into it if the cable were to break and the log rolls back down the ramp.


I like to hook my chains/cables/straps to the farthest side of the trailer away from the log, but I normally have a couple pieces of scrap down on the trailer so I can get the chains back out.
I also like to pull the logs up the ramps with the truck in forward. I can use a lower gear and not ruin my reverse. Also, if the cable were to snap, I have just a but more protection then the windshield.

[Part_Timer]

Mark

I found this for ya

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=17642.0

[oakiemac]

Thats a big log. What flavor is it?

Parbuckling that butt log might not be easy. I have had best luck when there was minimum butt flare and the log was straight. That log looks straight but there is a bunch of tamper. That thing will weigh several tons so you will need extra heavy duty ramps and a winch. A come a long or block and tackle probably will not cut it for that monster.

[oakiemac]

I just reread stumpys post. That is the exact way that I do it to. I saw the pictures of DanG parbuckling with single winch line around log and I think it might be harder to get the log going up the ramps straight that way. I  have always done it stumpys way with good sucess but I have never tried a humongous log that way.

[stumpy]

I used to drag the logs up the back of the trailer. I've switched to parbuckling up the side on some ramps.  I have a 9500# winch that I have on a reciever type mount at the front of the trailer. I run my cable to a snatch block on the side of the trailer opposite the ramps.

I also have a reciever on the front of my truck as well as my tractor.  I have a 24' cable made up of #4 welding cable and quick connects.  That way I can use the winch in any number of situations.

I have parbuckeled some very large logs this way(30" diameter 12' long Red Oak)  by myself.

[metalspinner]

Slabs,
Does the number of "loops" around the log reduce the force needed to move the log?  Rather, is more better than less? 
Also,  using a longer ramp on the butt end of the log  should help in keeping it going straight. 
Good luck!

[customsawyer]

In working with the large logs that I work with every day I would almost recomend cutting the logs as short as you can and still get the lumber that you want. If you need soome 8' lumber and some 16' make the butt cut the 8' and then get your 16' out of the next cut that way the bigest log is the shortest and then if you have to don't be afraid to rip the log in half as it is alot easier then most think. The last log I ripped was a popular that was 58'' dia. at the butt I have a 36" bar on a 385 husky position the log where you are ripping it at the thinnest line across the log take the time to change the angle on your chain to 10 degrees or less and it will amaze you how fast it will cut that log. The above popular took all of 13 minutes and less than one tank of gas in the saw. Most of us will burn more than one tank of gas just cutting fire wood so that should tell you it easier than cuttting firewood and then the log wieght is cut in half and when it rolls on to the flat side on to your ramps it should slide right up there. Just my $.02 worth.

[dail_h]

   I've got a coupla shots of cable that I use for parbuckling that work real good. What I do is hook both ends of the cable on the same side of the trailer,across the trailbe ,outside the rampsas far as they go. THEN i pull,push,roll the log over the cable,put a snatch block in the cente of the cable,then bacross the log to the pulling vehivile,usually my tractor. BE SURE TO PUT CHOCKS ,OR STANDARDS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TRAILER TO STOP THE LOG ONCE LOADED.
   I don't know this from any kind of personal experience,but it sounds like good advice(disclaimer) ;D ;D ;D

[Ianab]

Looking at that butt log I'd be moving the mill in to break it down  

Sure you might be on site an extra day, but put a couple of tarps down around the log and carry it away in pieces. I suspect that you will cause less mess/damage to the lawn than trying to move the log  ;)

The more sensible sized top logs wouldn't be so bad to haul away for sawing later.

Cheers

Ian

[sawmill_john]

Ga_Boy, on the MDS standard trailer set up the winch is set up to parbuckle the logs up, it's not fast but when your dealing with big logs fast is dangerous, I have personally loaded 52" flared, and oval logs onto the trailer, alone.  great care should be taken, make sure the trailer your loading is strong enough to safely haul the log.  I would suggest a chain hooked in two places on the trailer, then tie into the middle with you winch cable, this will stabilize the log as it climbs the ramps or blocking, how ever you plan to get it onto the trailer deck.

I sketched some thiing up real quick, this is how I would move a big log. I'm with some of the other guys I'd want to cut it there but I also know how things usally work, of all the options pick the most inconvienient thats what you have to try and do. 

good luck

PS the ramps are drawn way to short, a nice grandual spoe works much better.

[NZJake]

Ga_boy, your WPF will eat that log in a day or two if you've got a good offbearer.

Dock it up with a big chainsaw, use a couple of jack of all jacks (ie the BLACKRAT) to roll them off set. Use a tarp around the log to collect the sawdust (hang it down the high track and under the walk way). You'll have that log milled up in no time.

[Ga_Boy]

Okie,

This one is a White Oak.  It was at least 230 years old.  There is a bronze plaque there where the National Arborists Sociaty certified this tree to have been standing in 1776; the plaque was presented in 1976 as a part of the bi-centineal celebration.  The home owner told me she had a historian do some research and based on this location, General George Washington stood on the grounds of this estate during the American Revoluationary war; at that time the Grant Family owned the property.  This location is about 8 miles from the Washington Monmument. 


Jake,

I have other jobs lined up after this one, all I have is three days to get in and make the tree go away.  My proposal budgted for this being a three day job, if I take more time there goes my profit on this job plus my next jobs will suffer a time lag.  Not to mention the three sawing and drying jobs setting on my yard now.

I am thinking about buying some pullies to aid in the pull in addition to using 8" X 8" beams I use to manually load my WPF.  These beams are 8' long with a four foot taper cut on one end.  They are something like big wedges, if I use these beams under my trailer ramps that will decrease in the incline of the ramps.    My trailer is about one year old and rated to 14,000 pounds.

[jpgreen]

Washington. What a tree.  Please do something very special with that wood, and track every peice.  This is not just normal lumber. What ever is made from it should be a monument to America.

I would just add use a snatch block between the winch and chain to again, cut the load in half, and add even more margin of safety... 

[solodan]

I think that I would cut  off the butt log on the first day, and bring in the Peterson. After all that is what they are intended to do. ;) With 3 guys you should be able to mill that up and out of there on the first day. Then on Day 2 bring in the crew of 8 and do what you were gonna do on day one,+ you have 8 now to clean up the mess from the day before. Then on day three parbuckle the smaller logs  up. Still 3 days and the same man power, but this way there is no guessing if it is gonna work.

[DR Buck]

Well I guess  its' time I weigh in on this beast as well.     ONE MONSTER TREE    

When I first got the call to see if I was interested in doing this job, I almost said no.   Then after the "historic significance" of the tree began to sink in, I told the customer to stand-by.  I needed to make a call.    It went something like this....

"Mark, this is Dave.   Remember those big red oaks I sent your way last year?  (they were 54" diameter)  How'd you like to do something massively bigger with a historic past?   .....Yea really big!    .....  OK, lets go for it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This 1st picture I'm standing on the ground looking back toward the root- ball at about the 40ft point.   At 34ft up the main trunk is still 60" in diameter.  From there it goes straight up in three trunks.  One is  30" diameter (this picture) and goes another 36ft.  The other two are 24" and 18".  The 24" goes about 25-30ft.  The 18" goes about 15ft.

This picture is the certification plaque at the base of the tree.

The smaller logs will be loaded and taken out with this rig.

I'm grateful for all the suggestions on handling the BIG logs and I'm sure Mark is also.  We still have a few days to get our plan in place and then "get er done"[/i]

[Dan_Shade]

I have a hydraulic 10,500lb winch, hopefully we'll be able to get them loaded.  I use sawmill john's method so that things don't go all whackjaw when you hit the trailer with a flare.  if the flare's bad, we can also chop it off with the saw.  if we have to, we can saw down it and split it with a jack.  I'm more worried about it rolling of the other side of the trailer after it gets on there.

I've also got a snatch block...

we'll get it done ;D

[Tom]

Put a smaller log on the far side of the trailer first and it will help to chock the big log to keep it from falling off of the other side.

[logwalker]

I read and reread the thread and I don't see any mention of what brought the tree down. Was it a natural death or otherwise? LW