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Fire damaged steel

Started by Furby, March 25, 2006, 08:08:13 PM

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Furby

Local farmer had a major fire recently.
Lost a huge barn full of equipment and it looks like some attached sheds.
Anyways, they have cleaned the area out over the last couple days and have some of the equipment sitting off to one side.
My question is directed mostly towards the hyd. rams/mast on a hi-lo, but any other info is welcome.
It looks like the mast area was not burned as bad, some of the other equipment is the same way with only about half to 3/4 of it burned.

I figure the rams would need to be rebuilt, but how does the heat affect them?
Is it possible that the mast and rams could be salvaged, or should I just forget about it?
Anyone know how exspensive it is to rebuild the rams?

farmerdoug

Furby,

The qusion is did the seel get hot enough to lose its temper? 

The things I would look at is:
Did the paint burn off the pieces you are looking at?
If so check to see if any hyd. oil is still in the ram.  If there is then it probably did not get the ram to hot as the oil would have burned off first.

Was the cylinders exended?  If so then they were not protected by the oil.  Lookclosely to see if there is any discoloration that will not rub off.  Rebuilding the cylinders is not hard but could by costly so check with a shop to see if the parts are available.

If the other seel still has its paint then you are probably alright.  If it is burnt and discolored looking then it is a toss up.


Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Furby

If the cylinders got hot enough that they need rebuilding, would that be hot enough to to ruin the steel?

farmerdoug

Its depends on the type of seals it has.  If they were rubber then a little heat may ruin them.  If it is other packing material then it may have ruined the steel to cook the packing.  Rubber does not like heat an can be ruined easily.

How does the steel look on the hilo?  Did the pain burn off the area in question?  I have seen tracors rebuilt after engine fires that worked fine and even one from a building fire that burnt the tires off too.  The real question is how bad was the fire and how long did it burn in the area of the equipment before it was put out. Temper is lost in the red metal stage of heating metal so if the fire was limited in the area I doubt it over heated the metal.

Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Furby

The fire was big, lots of eqipment lost.
The hilo looked like it had paint on the mast.
I've only been able to see it as I drive by and it is sitting behind some other stuff.
Didn't want to bother them about it if there was a fair chance it was junk.
Guess I'll have to look for a chance to stop and talk to them about it.

farmerdoug

You do need to take a closer look. 
What kind of hilo is it?  I know of a '72 AC hilo that will lift 4000 lbs but has the small hard rubber tires for concrete use for sale for only 500.00.  So I would be careful on the offer for it if you know what I mean.

Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Furby

It won't be more then scrap price as it is going for scrap anyways.
I can get hilos along what you described by the dozens at that price.
$500 seems to be the going rate, for the hard tire kind.
I'm told that is what the are worth as scrap as well.
All I want is the mast and/or rams. ;)

Thanks for the help!

EZ

Down here, scrap steel keeps going up. If its doing the same up there maybe you should buy all of it and save what you can. Hang on to the rest you 6 months and double your money.
EZ

Quartlow

Depends on how much liability you want. We had a Brand new Genie Z45-22 catch fire while I was still in rental. The bozos where cutting steel and all the hot sparks and molten steel fell down under the boom and melted through the hydraulic lines.

Genie made us scrap it. Every last bit of it. IS it worth the risk to be lifting something and have it fail? It's up to you. personally I wouldn't risk it if the paints burnt off of it.
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

rebocardo

You should not use any hydraulic ram that has been subjected to fire where the hoses and paint burnt off, imo. The steel in rams and air tanks are especially made so the metal is not brittle and subject to fracture. Sudden wall failure when under pressure can kill you with metal shards, concussion, or fluid injection in the case of hydraulic rams. Losing a hose with a pin hole burst under 3-5K psi is bad enough to seriously injure or kill you.

Wood burns between 600-1000+ degrees which is enough to cause steel to lose its ductile and temper qualities, especially if it is rapidly cooled with water (quenching) while putting a fire out. Basically any steel used for structural support or pressure can not be trusted after a fire. Most hydraulic rams have hardened chromed pistons which if left outside the protecting oil probably where compromised.

The steel might be okay in non-critical apps. such as trailers and such where 35Kpsi steel is okay. I would consider anything for lifting applications which that had been through a fire junk.   

Furby

Well I had to drive past there a few times today, and while I didn't stop, it sure looks like all the paint burned off the mast.
I'm just going to pass on this thing, thanks for the info everyone.

scsmith42

Good move passing on the mast.

One other problem with hot steel where one portion of it gets hit by a blast of water is that the metal can turn brittle at the edge of the super-cooled section.  Definitely not good...

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

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