Spiral bark pattern

[Troy]

I recently bucked a large chestnut oak that I will be cutting fence boards out of for the neighbors down the road.   Approximately 26" dbh, long and straight, but the bark spirals up the tree like a candy cane.  On a sixteen foot log the bark makes about a full quarter twist from one end to the other.  Is this going to be a problem log with lots of tension and corkscrew boards?  What's your experience with this type of tree?

[Captain]

Yup!!

[Troy]

That's what I was affraid of Captain!  I already told my neighbors that they should plan on nailing them up as soon as they come off the mill.  Anyone know what causes a tree to grow like that? 

[Captain]

You also may want to consider shorter lengths than 16 feet.

Captain

[Troy]

I have a ten foot section, butt log, that I will be cutting boars for myself from, but they want sixteen specifically for fence boards.  Should start cutting them tomorrow afternoon.  Will let you know what happens!

[Norm]

I'm interested to hear how it works out Troy. I had a 16' cherry brought in with a load that has a spiral twist like you describe. I'm going to buck it to 8' lengths and cut it all 6/4 when I slice it up. Hope it helps to minimize the twist effects.

[Rockn H]

Does the bark twist to the left or the right? ???  For us, a log with a left hand twist tends to be the one with alot of tension in it.

[isawlogs]

 In general , when a log has a twist .. it will give you pain through out the operation ... from sawing to drying to machining , now if I cut logs for myself , those twistys get put in the fire wood pile . Or I leave them standing .
I know of one place where they put a spiral grain log in for a main beam in the center of the house, once it started to dry it lifted the floor .

[SwampDonkey]

I recently bucked a large chestnut oak that I will be cutting fence boards out of for the neighbors down the road.   Approximately 26" dbh, long and straight, but the bark spirals up the tree like a candy cane.  On a sixteen foot log the bark makes about a full quarter twist from one end to the other.  Is this going to be a problem log with lots of tension and corkscrew boards?  What's your experience with this type of tree?

Firewood. When I see it in rock (sugar) maple up this way, get ready for a living culvert, usually hollow on the but log.

[SwampDonkey]

I'm interested to hear how it works out Troy. I had a 16' cherry brought in with a load that has a spiral twist like you describe. I'm going to buck it to 8' lengths and cut it all 6/4 when I slice it up. Hope it helps to minimize the twist effects.

It'll probably be even worst of a pain in cherry. Any kind of excessive tension in cherry and it goes to pieces.

[ely]

not good for boards but you could market them as  wood propellars. :D

[Ron Wenrich]

My understanding of a cause is that it is genetic.  So, letting them stand isn't really a good idea...you get an undesirable seed source.  Cutting and letting them lay may be a better option.

Lodgepole pine is pretty well known to have spiral grain.  They use them for telephone poles.  I had a prof that worked for a railroad back when the telephone lines followed the tracks and had crossarms.  For some reason, they were snapping lines in some real remote sections of Wyoming.

The culprit turned out to be spiral grain and humidity.  When the humidity would rise, the arms on the poles would turn.  When you got one turning one way and another turning the other...then the lines snapped.   :D

[SwampDonkey]

Sounds good to me Ron  ;D  ;)

[woodmills1]

God made it that way.

[beenthere]

God made em that way so the poles would screw themselves into the ground. It's just that we plant them first, and then they can't  do it themselves   ;D

[Troy]

Interesting story Ron.  I did a search in the archives and found previous posts about the same subject.  Will see what it looks like tomorrow when I open one up.  They are right hand spiral, good and solid on both ends, so maybe it will be OK for fence boards.

[logwalker]

Cutting at 16', IMHO, you will have more leverage to nail them flat and keep them that way. This should prove interesting. LW

[wiam]

I have cut spiral cheery to 5' and still had considerable twist from one end of aboard to the other.

Worked ok for small projects.

Will

[dail_h]

   Righthand threads don't seem to be as bad as lefthand ones. Anybody else 'sperience this?

[Shamus]

I milled up a spiral western hemlock. It must have had ring shake as well, because all I ended up with were a whack of boards that broke into shards before I could even stack them. Useless...

[Furby]

Where is the post Arky made...... Righty tighty, Lefty losey or something like that.

Here we go!
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=8882.0

[Troy]

Well I milled one of the sixteen foot right hand spiral logs last night.  Did not see any tension to speak of, milled OK.  We'll see what they do as they dry some.  From all that I've read now on the direction of the grain spiral I think the rule of thumb shoulb be:  Righty tighty, lefty - firewood!

[Norm]

The cherry log with a left hand spiral was 14' instead of 16'. I cut it in half and sawed it up today. It sawed no differently than any other cherry I've done and had no serious tension to speak of. I sawed most of it 6/4 just in case but was pleasantly pleased with how well it turned out.

[wiam]

Norm let us know when it is dry. ;)

Will

[grade sawyer]

I'm interested to hear how it works out Troy. I had a 16' cherry brought in with a load that has a spiral twist like you describe. I'm going to buck it to 8' lengths and cut it all 6/4 when I slice it up. Hope it helps to minimize the twist effects.

TAKE IT 8/4 AND LOTS OF STICKERS AN LOTS OF WEIGHT.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Been really busy and sorry I did not get to this faster.

   The log and boards will be just fine.   Most logs have a slight right hand twist.   1/4 turn in 16 ft is not bad.  Furby brought up my old post and it is good info.   GrandPa always said that a log with left hand twist should be left in the woods to rot has proved true many many times over the years.  Like Ron said it is not good to leave them for seed stock either.   Here most hollow trees are of left hand twist.
  It would be good for follow up report on this to check out the way the lumber lays.

[Norm]

I stacked the cherry on stickers inside a morton shed. It's uninsulated so it warms up from the sun during the day and cools off during the night. A week later and the cherry is still flat and straight. Since I'm not sure how it'll turn out in the end I'm going to keep this wood for my own use.

Most of the lumber I saw if it's going to move you know it as soon as you slice the board off the log. I cut a soft maple log the same day, one slab that was 6/4 bowed up a good 8"s on the end. When the blade exited the other end I had rocking horse stock in that board.

[SwampDonkey]

I found an excerpt from a Silvics manual produced at the Maritime School of Forest Technology.

It has been found that the grain of wood in a young conifer usually has a left spiral. As the tree ages the left spiral gradually diminishes until the grain is straight then keeps twist to a right spiral, which increases with age. A tree going through this twisting cycle may be anywhere from 70 to 130 years old before it develops a right-spiral twist. Heavy right-spiral twist is one of the indicators of old growth.

The Textbook of Wood Technology suggests that spiral grain is a normal growth pattern, rather than straight grained wood. The extend and distribution of spirality in an individual tree are affected by environmental factors. The basic pattern of spiral-grain is 'believed' to be hereditary. Some trees contain both left and right spiral grain as you go from the pith to the cambium.

[Don P]

Some trees like gum switch every few years interlocking the grain.

This is a lefty floor joist, the closest one above the girder. It twists up on this side about 1" off the girder in 5" of width, the joist is 13' long.

A number of the logs were leftys, 2 of them had to be deeply kerfed to unwind them enough to lay flat. One has kerfs and a dozen 3/8 x 10" bolts, I think I broke 3 lags in the process as well.

I think the genetics must come into play, there's a stand of lefty hemlock at one edge of our place. All the others around here are pretty much righty.

[lawyer_sawyer]

just curious hwo the fence boards are doing and if you have seen any movement in them drying?

[Fla._Deadheader]

We sawed a twisty log, in Florida. The 1X boards would sag over a foot on each end, when ya picked 'em up in the middle of the 8' board.  :D :D

  They'd be great for trimmin out the inside radius of arch windows er sumpin.  8) 8) ;D ;D ;D

[Cedarman]

A lot of the cedar we saw has spiral grain.  It is never more apparent than when we split rails for fence.  I have seen some logs spiral 180 degrees in 10 feet.  But we never see any problem with sawn lumber.

We split sassafras also and some of those logs have 90 degrees in 10 foot.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Maybe Swampy will post a photo of the boards. I THINK we still have a couple boards left.

[SwampDonkey]

I've seen the spiral in old cedar telephone poles. I've also seen alot of spiral in lodgepole pine growing on swamps. Also, those old swamp pine are some hard, I've tried cutting them down with an axe and the axe just glances off. I think they're petrified.  :