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Norwood or Hudosn ??

Started by polar, March 21, 2006, 07:01:55 AM

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polar

Have been reading and reading prior to purchase. What do you all think of these mills pros and cons.
This is just hobby sawing. Do like the frame on the LM 2000. What options did you all purchase. Live in Minnesota any one have a used mill for sale. Thanks all.

moosehunter

 polar,
I have a Norwood, looked @ Hudson first. I think they are both good hobby saws. The Norwood seemed more refined to be. If you call Norwood they will put in touch with a local owner so you can see one work. ( maybe Hudson does the same?)
Check the Forestry Forum "For Sale" section for used units. When there is one they go fast so check it often!
Welcome the the Forestry Forum!
mh
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days".    Ray Wylie Hubbard

chet

It's a hands down choice in my opinion, go with Norwood. I do own one, but don't feel I am answering this way just because of any owner loyalty. I purchased pretty much a bare bones unit, then built and added options on my own.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

polar

Chet which Norwood did you buy and what did you add. Can weld and build most anything.

Dan_Shade

being able to weld and build anything is a necessity with a hud-son....  you don't get much saw for the money with a hud-son
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

isassi

I probably have no business saying anything, but my experience dealing with Hud-son on an E-bay deal, and then looking at the small mill in person (dealer here in Oklahoma), I chise not to buy one, and as FF members have seen, we bought a Mr Sawmill for my buddy Bill. I had a bad experience with Hud-son, and have also heard a few complaints from others, so I am not alone. Just my 2 cents ;)

Rancher

I normally don't chime in much but here is my two cent's worth. In the almost two I've had my Oscar 36, I've had no problems. Probably just dumb luck. I almost ordered a Norwood but the close proximity of my Hudson dealer and the fact that it was ready to go, made my decision easier. I can also weld and make almost anything as well. That is just a fact of life on a ranch. I haven't had to for my mill...yet. I know the day will come and that gremlins strike when you least expect them. So far...so good.

Dave
If you're honest you don't have to trust your memory.

loudsam

I have a Hudson Oscar 30 with the Vanguard 16 horse engine.  I am by no means helpless when it comes to repairing or maintaining my equipment.  But, unless you were to have a REAL good Hudson dealer near you,  I wouldn't buy a Hudson.   My mill is very simple, (uncomplicated), completely manual.  There is nothing wrong with the design or the components of my mill.  My mill saws very accurate lumber.  There IS something wrong with the Hudson Company's attitude, quality control, and overall customer relations, that stinks, big time.  I wouldn't buy a pair of pliers from Hudson.

Between the two, Hudson or Norwood, go with the Norwood.  Norwood owners have a forum, and they are, as far as I can see, happy with their mills, and the company.  Also, Norwood is a forum sponser, which means an awful lot!!!  Just my .02 cents worth.

ronwood

polar,

Have you taken a look at the smaller mills of Woodmizer and Timberking. They are also sponsor of the forum with good customer service.

Also welcome the the Forum.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Snag

I owned a Hudson Oscar 18.  I was provided zero training, zero documentation and zero help when I called them for assistance.  It isnt a real complicated unit, but give me a break, some instruction is needed with most everything.  I then get a letter from them a few years later asking for me to pay sales tax on it.  They were the ones that "qualified" me as tax exempt when I bought it based on my usage of it and property size.  They left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. :(

isassi

Looks like more then a few opinions out there, and I will say that if and when I buy a band mill, it will be a TK or WM, because customer service does make a company. I have dealt with TK (Woodmaster) and have been very pleased, and I hear only great things about WM. The sole reason for buying Bill's mill from MS, was price and delivery, since being blind, he may not stick with it and then he wouldn't have much invested. Another 2 cents. ;)

onionman

Just have to add to this  ..I started looking for a mill over a year ago.Norwood and Hudson were the only 2 that I thoght were in my price range. A hudson dealer was about 3 hours away so I called and set up a time for a demo.. drove the three hours only to find out that
the mill the "Hudson Dealer "was using to demo was not a even a Hudson mill..all the Hudsons were in shipping crates.!
I have since bought a used Wood Mizer and am glad I did. Had a few bugs to work out with it and woodmizer has been very helpfull over the phone.

tnlogger

polar welcome  :) any of our sponsors at the left will be glad to help you

woodmizer has 2 small mills  same with baker and timberking and norwood

and dont bypass the swingers peterson D&l and Lucas all have entry level mills  ;D ;D
gene

TexasTimbers

I have a LM 2000. The best thing about it is the Briggs 23 HP engine. Thant thing runs like a sewing machine.

I don't like the fact that Norwood won't sell you the powerhead alone. Building the track would save alot of dough, but I think that's why they don't sell it.

If I had to do it all over again, and I was going to buy a manual mill, I'd look for a company that would sell me the powerhead alone and I would build the track.

Their track is not bad, but it is a little flexible on really big logs. I built my own and the Norwood frame is just sitting idle. I plan to throw some axles beneath it one day and wire it for lights. I will probably get to it one day after the house gets built, and the other 97 items on my to do list ar done.

So my suggestion, if you want to save a bundle of money is to buy a powerhead and make the track. It's super easy. I beam and angle is all it takes.

Also, someone stole my gas tank. Crazy. I mean I had thousands of dollars of tools laying around and someone wants my little plastic gas tamk! So I called Norwood and they shot me a price quote of nearly $80 after shipping and tax to send me the tank and the little quick-disconnect. I thought that was outrageous so I just ran a little fuel hoe into a 5 gallon fuel container and viola. Back in business.

Now if it sounds like I'm dissing Norwood I'm not. As afr as I know they make the thing right here in the USA and, and even though I think there are some shoddy design features, the mill is well built for the price.
It gets "the shakes" sometimes but it is worth the money I believe. I don't think you'll be sorry you bought it if you don't want to build your own track.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

dredgeslavedave

What I did was order a DVD and price list from all of the sponsors. Then I watched all of the movies over and over again. Compared all the advantages and disadvantages of each and every mill. I tried to figure out what most of my needs would be. What size of logs I would be sawing most of the time. Then I watched all the different mill in action. Only then did I make my choice and send in my cash. I went with a Peterson swing-mill because that met all my needs. So my advice would be watch a bunch of movies and then watch a few mills work. Thank you, Dave.
3 Alaskan's and a Grandburg mini mill. The newest addition to the family, Peterson WPF 8 inch with electric raising winch

chet

Polar,
I bought the LM2000 with a 13 HP honda. I have since built and added a trailer package, 2 additional squaring arms, 2 additional sets of log dogs, 3 roller toe boards, 8 short leveling feet, 8 support legs, log loading ramps and winch, and lengthened the track. If I were to do it over, the only thing I would change would be add more HP. The 13HP Honda has done anything I have ever asked of it, but for them bigger logs more grunt is always good.  ;D

I do have one complaint with Norwood, I didn't get a free hat with my mill purchase.  :-\
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Skip

Amen Chet, I added bed extension new cant dogs extra dogs toe board and log leveler allready had trailer package 15 hp kohler and NO >:( free hat Oh. I Love the saw :) no problems in two years. But NO free hat

Dan_Shade

i got a hat and a shirt!

i do have to quantify that while I think the hud-son is overpriced, it does everything I need it to do.  but it has several shortcomings.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

polar

Thanks for the input so far. Yes I have ordered and watched all the DVD from the manufactures and sponsers from this site. Price is a factor along with structure and design of the unit. Yes I did look at Linn lumber where you can buy just the power heads but their cost equals the price of a complete unit from other dealers. I did check out Norwoods owner forum, their complaints range from guides to lube system. The other manufactures seemed to be higher in price for same unit size and charged for options that are included with others. No dealers in this area but can purchase from Northren Tools but better price from Norwood. Am concerened about the flex in the frame .Will wait to read more posts if there are better machines for the money let me know. Thanks again for the replys

chet

Polar,
If properly supported flex is not a problem. As for the lube system, it is a very minor detail (but simple fix) when compared to what the mill can do for the money spent.
Check my gallery photos and you can see some of the stuff I have put on my mill.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Dan_Shade

the norwood looks like a very sturdy mill, do they ever start to "shimmy" when cutting with them?  my saw will go crazy sometimes, especially in wood that has been down a while.  it can make things really slow going.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

chet

Yes you can on bigger stuff. But it can be pretty much controled by keeping blade speed up and by using blades of proper set and pitch for wood being cut.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

moosehunter

As Chet already said frame flex is not a problem if set properly.  I have two extensions and have moved mine a few times, the frame works fine. I am sure it takes longer to set up than a full on box frame of mamouth dimensions, but it is very light behind the tow vehicle.
It is manufactured in Canada. Canada makes some really good stuff. I am particularly fond of Canadian Beer for instance ;D.
mh
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days".    Ray Wylie Hubbard

Russ

The best feature on my Hudson is the power feed and the log hold downs {clamps}. The track is alittle cheap, the lift winch is alittle touchy { hard to get on the mark}, the carter guides sound good but other mills have guides that put down presure on the blade {why?}. 
I would consider a Quality Mill made in Rome NY.
http://www.1800woodchuck.com/   
I think you should visit some folks and watch them saw. 
Good Luck, Have Fun.

dail_h

   I saw with my Norwood almost every day,custom portable operation.I don't even want to think about how many times I've moved it,and no major problems with the mill or Norwood. The lube tank IS a joke,I just ditched mine and fixed a new one. There is a slight speed issue with the 23 Briggs as it comes from the factory that might cause some clutch slippage,but thats out in the open now so it's not really an issue.
   I have had extremely good customer service from Norwood on everything I've called them about,rare in this day and time.
I looked at a ton of mills before I bought,and in my opinion,Norwood is the best buy in a personal mill
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
      Volume Discount At ER
Singing The Song Of Circle Again

Shawn

Polar,
I would go with the Norwood, Unless of course you want to save a boat load of cash and build one yourself. You said you could weld? The only other hard part ir measuring. Any question drop me a pm.
Shawn...
Change is part of the design process.

Admit nothing, Deny everything, Make counter-accusations

polar

Thanks to all for the replys. Great input. Looked at Woodchuck looks good but not enough detail on their site. Will keep reading,  Leaning towards a Norwood, too bad they don't sell just the power head.
I see that the Norwood can be purchased at Northren Tool. Wander if purchased at the factory if they charge Minnesota sales tax or if at Northren Tool you could purchase on their card with a 10% discount they offer. but pay the tax? Will probaly purchase next month. Thanks again to all for the great info.

TexasTimbers

Funny how my experiences witht the LM2000 seem just opposite than other Norwood owners. I don't have a problem with the lube tank. It is a cheapo setup but it works fine for me. The shimmy and shake is there. The flex is there too I guarantee you that. When I say "flex" I am talking about a very minimal - but measurable amount. You won't be able to tell it in the wood so I should not have brought it up probably and I certainly don't want to start a debate about it. If someone else hasn't experienced it then their input is just as valid as mine. I wouldn't worry about it and like I say I probably should not have brought it up, I just thought I should share my whole expereicne.
Keep in mind, most people are only human and develop very strong loyalty. I can understand getting attached to a Woodmizer or Baker - those are phenomenal machines. But a LM200 is just a stepping stone in my book or if you simply can't afford more. But it is not a GREAT machine in my book as it has some design issues. It is a GOOD machine. This is just one man's opinion and most Norwood owners will probably tell you not to listen to me and to just buy it.
I have no problems at all with the Briggs 23HP. If it has clutch issues that is NOT the engines problem. That is the clutch. But I guess Dail is saying the engine is "causing" it but I haven't experienced it. The thng powers through anything I throw at it and never skips a beat or even bogs down.

A Norwood powerhead might be available shortly. I am seriously looking at an LT40. When I get back to Texas, if my wife gives me the okay nod, I am going to buy one that is right down the street. It has one hour on it. It has hydraulics. It is orange. It is calling me like a Sea Siren calls a man adrift in a vast, lonely ocean devoid of hydraulics ........

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

D._Frederick

Russ,

The down pressure you are talking about is required for guides with the single roller, otherwise the blade would jump out from under the quide. The Carter guide is the plate type that the blade is supported on both the top and bottom. This type of guide keeps the blade from twisting when a knot is sawn.

Mills with this plate guide should get longer blade life than those requiring the 1/4 inch of down force, since the blade does not  have two additional deflection points.

Russ

I've run mine with no guides at all when I needed the extra room for a large log. I've noticed that alot of the higher production mills use the down pressure type guide.

One thing I liked on the Quality mill was the manual lift control, It worked well  at the Keene farm show a few years ago. Sometimes it takes a couple trys to get my lift on the mark. I'm pretty sure it was the company owner who was demoing the sawmills there.

thecfarm

Don't forget about the little guy on a back road.I bought my Thomas from a small machine shop in a small town.A very simple mill and have never had a problem with it.I do not move it though.They came and set it up,a few minor adjustments,threw a log on and I was sawing lumber.We sawed up one log and everything came out straight and true and a few more pointers and off he left me to have some fun.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

TexasTimbers

Tis true. There's a guy up in Oklahoma that advertises in a local shopper. "Band Sawmill $4000 Firm" I called him up once. He is retired Air Farce. Makes them when he wants/needs money he says. He said he's made about 50 over the last 5 years just putterin around. I have not seen one but he claims to have every single customer as his happiest one.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

dail_h

   I better clear up what I meant about the Briggs and clutch before it gets really misunderstood. I reread my post,wasn't too clear. Here's what Iexperienced with my mill. Ever since new,it would take 4-5 cuts to get the clutch to not slip,engine didn't lug down,clutch just slipped. Norwood sent me a new clutch under warrenty,no problem ,same thing. 5or 6 months into this mill ,I borrowed an electronic tach from my local small engine shpo to test my rpms 3250 wide open. Right in line for this engine according to small engine guy.
   In just the last month or so sombody over on the Norwood forum discovered that by moving the govenor spring slightly,the rpms went up to 36 -3700,the clutch locked in with no slippageIt seeme the 23 Briggs comes from the factory goverened to 32 -3300rpms. Slip a #6 drywall screw (that's what I had )
behind the govenor spring,problem solved. I don't think anyone that has changed their's has had anymore trouble.
   Don't get me wrong,I think the Norwood is probably the finest entry-level mill on the market today,and I would buy one again in a halfa heartbeat.
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
      Volume Discount At ER
Singing The Song Of Circle Again

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