Hemlock Deck - & covered front porch

Snag · March 08, 2006, 12:21:01 PM

Has anyone had a positive experience building a deck with hemlock? I guess I am most concerned with the splinter aspect of it. I would hate to build one and fill the kids feet with wood... :( Any advice? Any methods to reduce splintering? Thanks.

mike_van · March 08, 2006, 07:17:20 PM

My 2 cents, I wouldn't do it - I've used it for siding, it does tend to let splinters off, cedar would be a better choice.

simonmeridew · March 08, 2006, 08:01:33 PM

Hi Snag
My 200 year old post and beam house is "framed" with Hemlock, and 15 years ago I cut some hemlock for my new porch posts--5 x 5's--they are very stable and haven't checked at all. The exposed inside-the-house post and beams have checked over the years, of course they're inside and subject to intense drying in the winter.
Hemlock would not be my first choice for decking where people may walk barefooted and pick up a splinter. The knock is that the butt log of hemlock is subject to "shakes" or separation of the annual rings. It doesn't always happen though. It is claimed that hemlock is somewhat rot resistant, but with all the work and labor that goes into building a deck, I used pressure treated 1 x 6 (actually I think it's 5/4 x 6) pressure treated southern yellow pine for the decking. I've seen non pressure treated decking that had to be ripped out after 5 years due to the rotting of humid New England summers. Don't know what kind of wood it was though.
The hemlock has worked out well for the posts with no deterioration, with poplar railing, spindles and ceiling.
simonmeridew

IMERC · March 08, 2006, 08:18:49 PM

Quote from: mike_van on March 08, 2006, 07:17:20 PM

cedar would be a better choice.

Redwood would be better yet...
Red Cedar if you you do and not white..

IMERC · March 08, 2006, 08:22:19 PM

Quote from: simonmeridew on March 08, 2006, 08:01:33 PM

I used pressure treated 1 x 6 (actually I think it's 5/4 x 6) pressure treated southern yellow pine for the decking.

simonmeridew

today's PT is a poor choice because of the fastners it take to put it together and a splinter from it will infect something fierce.

logwalker · March 09, 2006, 12:07:08 AM

Around these parts all the outdoor wood in the box stores and Lumber yards is treated western hemlock. I have never seen it splinter bad but it is probally not the specie you guys are refering to. $.02. LW

Snag · March 09, 2006, 10:52:01 AM

Ok. This is what I have here: elm, fir, hemlock, red oak, some white oak, poplar, white pine, another pine I am not sure of (they look like they touch the sky), sugar maple, beech, black birch, ash, basswood, and white cedar. Doesnt look good as far as sawing my own decking then. What about a covered front porch? I really dont want to use pt for that. What would your suggestions for that be?

Jeff · March 09, 2006, 12:51:20 PM

White cedar is perfect for the decking. I would use it in a heart beat. I would used treated lumber for structure though, even though I have a mill.

Snag · March 09, 2006, 01:31:47 PM

Well, thats some good news. can I use the sapwood also or am I limited to using the heartwood. What is the best way to process/treat the wood to limit splinters? Also, what would be good for the porch white oak? Just not sure if I can get my hands on enough of it.

Jeff · March 09, 2006, 05:06:25 PM

I would think for the most durable deck, you would use the heart wood as I dont think the sapwood is resistant to decay like the heartwood.

Here is a good link to tell you why white cedar makes a good deck. Might as well let them tell you so I aint gotta type it. ;D

http://www.whitecedar.com/Decking.htm

Snag · March 09, 2006, 05:17:35 PM

Thanks Jeff.

SwampDonkey · March 09, 2006, 06:42:07 PM

People use white cedar here for lawn furniture. I had great enjoyment from a cedar bench we had here at my place and one at grandfathers place where we would sit out under the trees with a summer breeze driving the black flies away. I don't have many flies at my place, but they used to be bad at grandfather's.

Also everyone here that had potato farms always had white cedar potato barrels with white ash strips nailed outside in circumference of the barrel. Those old barrels took an aweful beaten in all kinds of weather in the fields, in the mud then you'de use them all winter in a high humidy potato shed. Some people around here use them to make potato barrel flower beds of all things. :

Used to be a barrel factory about 5 miles from here, they were very nice barrels to.

8)

UNCLEBUCK · March 09, 2006, 09:04:01 PM

If Hemlock is like tamarack my grandpa's cattle feedbunks are 45 years old and still strong and also his hayshed poles and they are exposed to the weather really bad . Hard to drive a nail in them poles, its like hitting iron !

SwampDonkey · March 10, 2006, 05:50:03 AM

tamarack is more decay resistant than hemlock actually. ;)

simonmeridew · March 10, 2006, 05:44:24 PM

The Hemlock we have is the Eastern Hemlock. When you scrape the bark it shows purple. Otherwise the bark looks some like Eastern White Pine. Obviously needles and cones are different but if you're looking at a pile of logs on a landing the purple is a help identifying. Scrape the outer bark with something dull like a maple stick or peavy handle.

I floored my kitchen in Tamarack that I had sawed out maybe 25 years ago. Really a tough wood for a softwood; also used in horse stalls because of its toughness. Again, it's Eastern Tamarack, or Larch, not Western Tamarack. I would think you could find some Tamarack logs in your area.Quite a bit in NE Vermont. Not a lot of call for it, but worth a look at. This time of year, if you're cruising the woods, look for a nice straight tree with a pronounced scaley(as in scales) bark, very similar to a White Spruce(Aka "skunk spruce") But the tamarack will have no needles on it and instead have what I think are cones that look like rather large buds on the ends of the little branches. If you saw one in the woods you might think you had a white spruce that died sometime last summer. It isn't and didn't.
I recommend for flooring, but sticker it quick after milling out.
simonmeridew

IMERC · March 10, 2006, 11:12:05 PM

Do the deck decking in Ipe... (Ironwood)
now that's about as forever as you can get in a natural material...

SwampDonkey · March 11, 2006, 07:05:25 AM

If it's the same ironwood I'm accustomed to (eastern hop hornbeam), it won't last any longer than maple.

IMERC · March 11, 2006, 08:24:53 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 11, 2006, 07:05:25 AM
If it's the same ironwood I'm accustomed to (eastern hop hornbeam), it won't last any longer than maple.

don't think so...

IPE (aka. Ironwood) is one of many commercial names used for the the imposing Lapacho group of trees from the various species of Tabebuia.The trees generally grow from 140 to 150 feet, but some can reach heights of 200 feet. Some other common names for the trees from this group include Bethbara and Lapacho, and a host of names used in the countries where the trees grow. The trees are mostly found in Brazil as well as throughout Central and South America and some of the Lesser Antilles.

IPE'S strong, tough resilient properties make it an excellent material and increasingly popular choice for commercial/residential decking and outdoor furniture. It is prized for its stability, durability, strength and natural resistance to decay, wet conditions, and infestation by termites and borers. It is available in long lengths and relatively easy to season. Ipe has a Class A fire rating, the same rating given to concrete and steel.

SwampDonkey · March 11, 2006, 08:32:06 AM

Ostrya virginiana ???

or do you mean blue beech Carpinus caroliniana. I have no experience with that species.

IMERC · March 11, 2006, 08:35:24 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 11, 2006, 07:05:25 AM
If it's the same ironwood I'm accustomed to (eastern hop hornbeam), it won't last any longer than maple.

can't be ... the stuff I use destroys cutters... more so than Maple could hope to do..

SwampDonkey · March 11, 2006, 08:41:56 AM

Oh, I didn't know you were talking about foreign species. :

IMERC · March 11, 2006, 08:42:59 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 11, 2006, 08:32:06 AM
Ostrya virginiana ???

or do you mean blue beech Carpinus caroliniana. I have no experience with that species.

Googled both... the stuff I use is tropical and doesn't fit the bill for either from North America

beenthere · March 11, 2006, 09:40:39 AM

IPE wood

Jeff · March 11, 2006, 09:58:46 AM

IMERC you are talking about an exotic species and is only available naturally to possibly crtreedude. Or in the U.S.A. by special import or at specialty hardwood supply retailers or if you look real hard, growing next to a fountain inside the megamall.

Eastern Hop hornbeam is what is commonly referred to as Ironwood and grows locally around here and across most of the U.S. east of the Mississippi. Most anyone that is referring to ironwood is talking about that, and Swamp is right, if you used it for a deck, you could count on replacing about every other year.

chet · March 11, 2006, 10:22:03 AM

Snag,
Ditto on the White Cedar For longevity. You could also check to see if your (reach to the sky) pine is Red Pine. Red pine is very treatable. If you have a treatment facility nearby, that will give you another option. The facility I use charges me between 12¢ and 16¢ board foot depending on the treatment.