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Author Topic: Pine but what kind?  (Read 4628 times)

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Offline TexasTimbers

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Pine but what kind?
« on: March 02, 2006, 09:41:11 pm »
I can't identify this pine bark in my National Audubon Field Guide. The tree to the right is loblolly so don't go by that end grain. The one in question has a very thin bark.


Here's another picture of it. The closest thing i match it to in the book is Virginia Pine but we don't have that down here. I think.

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline Tom

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2006, 11:06:55 pm »
It looks like slash.

Longleaf will look like that too, especially toward the top.

If you have Longleaf, it could be Sonderegger and show both Loblolly and Longleaf traits.

You really need more than just the bark for accurate identification.

Here is Jeff with some longleaf. 

extinct

Offline UNCLEBUCK

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 12:37:49 am »
1st picture is long leaf yellow pine if a pop can will stick to it !

2nd picture looks like a whack of coconut trees and some guy who just came out from behind to say hey get away from my coconut trees !
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 08:37:50 am »
That looks like scotch pine to me. The Audubon Society's picture is not the best one because the bark looks more reddish orange and flakes off in pieces like your picture. Usually has big branches and can get kind of bushy.
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Offline Riles

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 10:15:26 am »
Only five native southern pines: longleaf, shortleaf, loblolly, slash, and spruce pine. Looks like shortleaf with the "pressed on bark." Longleaf and loblolly have three needles in a bundle (as does the sonderegger hybrid). The other three have two needles in a bundle. Spruce needles twist around themselves and are the ugliest pines in the south. Really gnarly looking, which you clearly do not have. Slash has thicker bark than shortleaf and a golden tan color underneath when you break some of the bark off.

Check the needles first.
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Offline Pullinchips

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 10:47:21 am »
My first thought is longleaf but it could be an old shortleaf that has the bark rubbed or fallen off.  The bark does not appear orangeish-red  enough to be slash (my opinion).  A way to tell if it is shortleaf is to look at the bark near the bottom of the tree and look for the resin wells.  Only shortleaf pines have these, so don't worry about the needles in this case.  The wells look like a tiny crater about the size of a pencil that may or may not have the slightest resin comming out of them.  The tree to me looks to "clean" to be virginia pine, and did not jump out at me as a possibility.  So if the tree has no resin wells (they should be every where each bark plate should have 3 or more so don't look to hard) then i would second longleaf.

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Offline Gary_C

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2006, 04:59:09 pm »
I still think it is Scotch Pine. It is not a native species, but has been widely planted. That orange red flakey bark and the thick branches are a dead giveaway. 
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Offline TexasTimbers

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2006, 11:58:22 pm »
Okay I will go back and look for those wells. After Tom said Slash, I look again at the book and it looks possible. Longleaf in the book looks less possible just looking at the bark. The pictures may not bear it out as much.
You can't believe how thin the layer of bark is. Thinner than what it looks like in the pics.
I wonder how to know for sure.
Thanks for ther tutelage. Here's a look at how thin the bark is. You can tell the thick loblolly from the thinner-barked  mystery pine. Gary you might be right too but in person, the picture in the book I have does not match what the tree looks like, but there are alot of variables I'm discovering. Trying to identify trees is getting to be fun. I like it!


The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline C_Miller

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2006, 01:26:46 am »
the first pic looks like something southern, the second pic looks like Scotch Pine.
Scotch pine is bright orange and large papery flakes toward the limbs. I think five needles in the cluster and may have come out of an old plantation  set up for Christmass trees.
CJM

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2006, 10:08:18 am »
I have looked at a lot of pine over the years, including scotch pine in old
Christmas tree plantations.  Without the benefit of needles, I would say shortleaf pine.  Strong in  your area, and if suppressed will give this tight bark.  Loblolly does the same, but like you say, some what thicker.  Needles will tell.
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Offline Pullinchips

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2006, 02:20:07 pm »
True a suppressed old shortleaf will have large thin flaky bark like those.  But it will have resin wells all over the bark like minny moon craters.  This is the only southern yellow pine that has this trait and therefore is a giveaway trait for the species.  Guys i think the needles may be long gone, i not sure if he cut it or just ended up with it.   The last pic shows logs on a trailer or truck and no needles are present, so the easiest way a side from going back to the place where the tree was cut down (may not be easy depending on distance from the site) is to look for the resin wells.  They are there if it's short leaf.

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Offline TexasTimbers

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2006, 08:34:39 pm »
Nate you are right about me never having needles. the guy I bought them from didn't know either. I wonder if I can type in "resin well" in google image and see what I'm looking for.

Hey i just remembered there are alot of holes that look like a woodpecker has had his way with them, would they look like that?
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Offline Riles

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2006, 09:09:54 pm »
Those would be the exit holes from bark beetles. How long has the tree been down?
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Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2006, 10:39:25 am »
Been checking shortleaf in south east Texas.  Resin wells are small and far and few between.  Still say shotleaf.
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Offline Riles

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2006, 05:45:26 pm »
Kevjay, what part of Central North East Texas are you in? ;D I'm 30 miles from North East Texas and my dendro professor is gonna take my grade back if I get this wrong. Shortleaf is a money tree in the Piney Woods and I'm supposed to be able to identify them from a chain away. That means bark.

It's a shortleaf.
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Offline RMay

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2006, 10:21:23 pm »
Lobloly will look like that when its old and suppressed .
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Offline DanG

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2006, 09:15:22 am »
I'm far from being an expert on this, but I have made some observations.  I'm wondering if bark appearance isn't changed somewhat by the environment the tree grows in.  The reason I'm thinking this is the two big Loblolly pines out in front of my shop.  They have identical cones and needles, and their form and size is about the same, but the bark is totally different.  The one that is out in the open has the thin, papery looking bark, but the other one, about 100' away is protected by the thick growth surrounding it, and it has very thick, rough bark.  I'm thinking the first one has been "sanded" by the weather, making it appear different.  It also is not as healthy, since it is right next to the driveway, and has been beset by beetles, while the other one doesn't have these problems.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2006, 12:33:36 pm »
Are they both the same age?  Bark thickens with age, so a tree that is open grown and pretty young would appear to have thinner bark than an older tree that is the same size. 

I've noticed differences in age especially with hardwoods, and white pine. 
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2006, 12:49:38 pm »
Pics aren't orange enough for scots pine. Some of the older cultivars that were planted in my area were the worst looking trees you ever saw. I'de say some kind of southern pine.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline DanG

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Re: Pine but what kind?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2006, 11:39:03 pm »
Ron, from what I can see, with my limited experience, they seem to be about the same age.  I'm basing this on the size of branches, evidence of self pruning, etc.  I studied them a bit more today, after posting that, and noticed that the one by the driveway has thicker bark on the one side that is protected by some other, smaller trees, but the bark on the unprotected sides is noticably thinner.  These are large pines, probably over 100 years old, so I can only speculate about their original growing conditions.  I took some pics of them today, too, but left the camera out in the shop.  There is another one right next to my shop, and the bark on it is much thicker down low, where it is protected by the building, and much thicker on the side next to the building
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