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Livestock and forestry

Started by Phil, November 05, 2002, 11:22:29 AM

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Phil

Hidy, folks.

I'm writing an article on livestock for Independent Sawmill & Woodlot Management, and I'm looking for input from those of you who've been there and done that.

I just read the "Cows in the woodlot revisited" thread, so I hope nobody gets bored by my bringing this up again.

The article I'm putting together will look at the relationship between livestock and forestry and how to make the two work together.  Points I'm hoping to touch on include

1) Cost-share sources for fencing livestock out of timber areas;
2) Whether or not it's ALWAYS necessary to keep ALL livestock out of ANY valuable timber areas (Judging from the other thread, I see that some of you -- like Don and Corley5 -- are in favor of letting livestock graze on timberlands for limited periods of time.);
3) Judging when a tract is of low enough value that converting it to pasture would be more profitable;
4) Situations in which the grazing of goats or other livestock can complement timber production:  eliminating kudzu or multi-flora rose, for instance;
and etc.

If anyone would be willing to be interviewed on this subject, please e-mail me at phillip@phillipmeeks.com .  I can then e-mail you a list of questions, or if you prefer, I can give you a call.

Phil



Ron Wenrich

I haven't had too much experience with livestock in the woods.  But, I have had goats.  They will eat everything that they can reach.  But, they will also try to strip the bark off of any thin barked species.  

They killed a lot of the red maple in my field, as well as a few eastern red cedars and some young ash.  They stayed away from the choke cherry, though.  They also continually grazed my young walnuts to brush.  They didn't eat the poison ivy either.

They are a fairly light animal, when compared to cows.  So, you don't get the soil compaction.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Texas Ranger

Going to Forestry school in Missouri we were taught that goats were the ultimate killing machine for the woods.  Eat about anything, and clean the place to the ground.  In Texas some ranchers will rent a bunch of goats for a short time to clean up the brush, more ecologically sound than the use of herbicide (to some).  

But, under tight management cattle can be controlled in the southern woods, and do have a good number of benefits, as well as a few draw backs.  The biggest draw back is their "trailing", cutting banks in tanks and creeks.  They will help control competitive grasses in pine plantations, but don't work real well on brush.  Have a client that use precise managment and maintains the grass in rather open plantations with the use of cows.  Amazing to his neighbors that turn their cows in the woods for months on end and wonder where everything went.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

smwwoody

I read a thred somewhere about cows being one of the major causes of shake in eastern hemlock by damageing the exposed roots and leaving and open pathway for the disease to enter the tree.  I will try to find it for you.
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Sawyerfortyish

Iv'e experienced wind shook hemlock first hand and can say cows and hemlock don't mix!

dewwood

As a general rule livestock and trees do not get along.  In this area many woodlots were pastured at one time or another.  You can cut from a woods that had liverstock in it 50 years ago and the evidence is still there in lower quality logs.  It is often difficult to tell if a woods has been pastured if the fences are all gone and there is no other indication of grazing such as a lane leading to the woods but when you start to cut the trees it will show up.

Many buyers will discount a pastured woodlot when bidding on it.

Selling hardwood lumber, doing some sawing and drying, growing the next generation of trees and enjoying the kids and grandkids.

Brian_Bailey

My neighbor used to pasture his cows on my property before I bought it. He did so for about 25 yrs. It has been about 30 yrs.since and the woods is just starting to recover. There is a lot of thorn apple and trash trees that probably wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the cows munching down the maples.
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Frank_Pender

Yep, the only place I have seen it work is in Eastern Oregon, where you have a few hundred head of cattle spread over several thousand acres of Taylor Grazing Rites land, then only from about mid June to round-up time in September or early October.  Thre soils in the region are very graimy and allows for water to drain easily causing less compaction and mudding up so to speak.   This is just from a little experience of going on some of the drives in the Spring as well as the Fall.  
Frank Pender

Phil

Thanks for your words of wisdom, gentlemen.  I should be finishing up the final draft of that article within the next 24 hours.

Phil

Jeff

I guess I am naturally a promoter for the Forestry Forum so I gotta ask this question. Does the Forestry Forum ever get a mention as a source in your articles Phil?

How about doing a story about the Forestry Forum!! :) I have lots of places I could send it out to and maybe other members would too.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Phil

Hi, Jeff.

I gave the Forestry Forum a plug in the forestry article for Hobby Farms (the one that won't be published until Jan. 2004), and I also mentioned it in the Sawmill & Woodlot article that I just submitted (for Jan. 2003, I think).  Of course, whether or not the plug makes the cut is ultimately left up to the editors, but I can't think of a reason they'd cut it.

You know, an article about the forum isn't a bad idea at all.  I ort to've thought of that.  

As a matter of fact, I'll throw that idea out to a few magazines today, as things are a bit slow here right now.

Phil

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Bill Johnson

There has been some work done up here using sheep as an alternative to aerial herbicide application. (I never could figure out how you get a sheep through a boom and nozzle system without clogging up the nozzles  ::))

It is very time consuming, labour intensive, and often calls for repeat treatments on the same plot.

There were some problems with predation from bears and wolves but over all loses were low.

While we've never used it in our particular area, I know that some of the neighbouring areas tried it.  

I've also heard that I believe it was in British Columbia they've done some work using geese to keep weeds etc down in some of plantations.  

Paul do you know anything about that?
Bill

Bro. Noble

Bill.

Even if you get the sheep through the nozzles,  the fall from the plane would probably spoil their appetite.

I have heard of people using geese to weed row crops before the use of herbicides.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Tom

Have you ever had Geese find your house?  I think I'de rather have the weeds.  Them and ducks leave some of the messiest messes I've ever seen in my life.:D  We're beginnng to get flocks of Canadians that stay year round in Florida and the Ranchers don't even like them in the fields.  E-v-v-erybody is coming to Florida. :-/

Noble_Ma

Tom,

Up here we have problems with the geese around the resevoirs.  The dropping are washing into the water and 'fowling" it up. ;D

Tom


tony_marks

  ive run goats and cows, an contrary to what i thought . the cows[s 2 on 10] acres of honeysuckle covered trees cleaned up much better than the goats. my old milk cow raied 2 calves on that 10 acres of honey sucklr. an left the trees clean as a any herbicide could have done. the goats kinda disappointed me as they wouldnt even eat the polk . had some 23 [ever increasing] on that 10 and they didnt do near as good as that ole jersey.

Paul_H

Bill,
I haven't read any thing about the Geese,but I would guess that the Gulf Islands here,would be a likely spot for it to happen.

There was a article in one of the logging magazines a few years back,where in Northern(?) BC, the Forest Service had a crew contracted to take sheep through large plantations for weed control.I remember they worked with dogs,and kept the sheep moving all the time.I don't know if it was successful.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

dan-l-b

Hey Phil, I second the idea of an article on this forum in IS&W.  As a newbie to sawmilling I thought I had hit the holy grail when I accidently ran into IS&W ::)  Bought all the back issues.  The problem for me was the two months between issues.   :-[  Now I get my fix here on the forum.  Took a Master Tree Farmer coarse last spring and brought some magazines to class--- like pirranha my classmates approached.   :o  I got out alive :o  My point is that there is a real thirst for good information, especially by the small woodlot owner. ;D ;D  Merry Christmas.  Dan

Jeff

I third it! Oh... wait... I can't do that can I. :-X :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ed_K

I used a single nubian goat when I bought a 10 acre maple orchard, to open it back up. Did a good job on the prickers, multiflora rose and all the small trees up to 2" hemlock and all, but left the beech. If you don't care about the regeneration, they do a good job. I used the goat for 2 years then stoped that and now use a brush saw on unwanted species. Got to watch the goats all the time, if they get out they'll go right for mom'as flower garden. Not nice :-[.
I really enjoy the I,S & W.
Ed K.
Ed K

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