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Corley Sawmill

Started by shopteacher, February 26, 2006, 10:38:23 AM

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shopteacher

Found out from customer service at corley my sawmill was built in 1951 and is a model 395.  Any coments on this model? I'd like to hear them.  The 2 shear pins that go through the blade were sheared off and the nut was so tight I had to cut it through with a cold chisel to get it off.  What kind of steel are the pins made of? Tried a 24" pipe wrench and a 6 foot cheater but it wouldn't even budge.  Don't know if this affected the blade or not. What are your thoughts on it? Everything seems to be in pretty good shape the only part I've seen that looks pretty worn is the pnion gear that engages the carriage travel.  I can probably get a new gear or rebuild the old one if needed.  Hope to get it painted up and ready to put back together come spring.
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Fla._Deadheader


Them old 395's was the heart of the sawing industry in the midwest and other timber areas. Completely worn out they still turn out good lumber, if ya know how to keep 'em tuned.

  Never dealt with sheared pins before. Might wanna contact the company again and see what they recommend.

  If I had the time, I would love to hep ya put 'er back to runnin. My #2 was the newer version of that 395.

  Doubt if the blade was hurt from being tight. Sounds like they ran the thing with the blade loose and sheared the pins, then sawing forces tightened the nut.  Got a long or short mandrel (2 or 3 bearings) ??  What kinda dust doodler ya get with it ??

  Cool machine  8) 8)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Ron Wenrich

I get my shear pins from my local saw doc.  Mine are a long type and sometimes get bent.  I always have a few sets as backups.  Relatively inexpensive.  The metal is fairly soft in relationship to other steel.  That's what you want.

I wrecked my saw one time like you have described.  We cut our nut off.  There are a few problems that you should have looked at before you start sawing.  

When you have a nut seize as tightly as that, you have probably smashed your collars.  They should be turned so they function properly.  Since your mill is apart, I would take the mandrel and the have that collar turned, as well as having your outside collar turned.  A good machine shop can do this.  We run short shafts and have a backup just in case.  There are guys who can turn mandrel collars on the mill.  But, it is much more expensive.

When you mount your saw, you want to make sure you don't smash your collars.  Put the saw onto the mandreal, outside collar on and the nut.  While tightening the nut, pull the saw back against the shear pins.  If you don't, you can shear them off or bend them when you saw into your first log.  When they shear off, your collar can get real tight.

When you tighten your nut, kick it on.  I use 3 kicks to tighten it.  Don't try to strong arm it by using long pipes, or sledge hammers (I've seen guys do this).  You'll just smash the collars and give yourself more headaches.

I would also think about having the saw hammered.  If somebody was running a mill with a saw in that condition, I imagine he has abused the saw pretty badly.  If the saw was hung, it will surely have some internal stresses.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

If the pins were sheared your going to need to grind the collars as the saw spun on them. If the saw shows no signs of trama, the pins may have sheared simply because the saw was not pulled back against them (taking the slop one way between holes, collar holes, and saw holes). When the saw was fired up and the saw first hit wood, whamo, sheared pins.  I never personally sheared any pins in 25 years but I saw a couple other fellows do it. Bot hon start up after putting on new blades.   I doube if it hurt the blades, and as Harold says, if the pins were sheared and they continued to try to saw, sawing forces tightened the nut.  The pins I saw after the fact were sheared, not broken so the metal must be soft. I hade a one pound coffee can there half full of new ones then about 3 inches of settled sawdust.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Try to get your self a mandrel wrench, you can always have one made our of 1 inch plate. The wrench will be about 30 inches long. The business end is enlarged. It fits sloppy on the mandrel nut. rather then using it to pull a nut tight, you use it to "hammer" the nut with your arms by "banging" the slop in the wrench 3 or 4 times by lifting the wrench to one side of the slop, and jerking it down againt the other side. The wrench is box ended not open, and simply over sized. you never use a hammer or a pipe or anything like that.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

jpgreen

Howbout that Rust Reaper?

Does that stuff work good?
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Jeff

It works very good, its the best there is, but it has no effect on torque.  :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

jpgreen

Well tha's wut we need.. "Instant Torque", just spray it on.  A lil' goes a long way..  :D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

shopteacher

Thanks for the info guys. I looked at the flanges but don't really know what to look for. Condition of them looks good. Are they suppose to taper toward the hole  like smaller saw flanges? I got that grinder with it but haven't a clue as how to set it up or use it.  The holes on the blade look concentric. Thanks for the info on making a wrench Jeff, I had to make a few when I worked in the steel mill.








Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Ron Wenrich

Your sharpener is an Andrus sharpener.  You can buy wheels from a saw doc or someplace on line.  Wheels for steel bits is about $15.  I had one like that, but went back to hand filing.  They give you a good angle, when set up right.

The shear pins will probably have to be drilled out.  It shouldn't be too hard.  You may be able to get them out with an easy out.

The saw nut can also be gotten from a mill supply or saw doc.  Corley could probably supply both.

As for taper, I believe you can find this covered in Lunstrum's book on circle mills.  Page 19 & 20 to be exact.  Taper is from .002 to .044 inch with the radial taper towards the collar recess. 

The biggest problem you will find with collars are that they don't touch evenly all the way around.   That will cause some problems if left to go too long.  We have ours turned periodically as a safeguard, when things start to long bad on the contact points on the saw,
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

shopteacher

Thanks Ron,
  I'll contact Corley for pins and a nut if available and see if I can get a recommended taper for the flanges.

Harold: When can I expect ya?
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Fla._Deadheader


DanGit Glenn,  yer makin it hard on me.  ::) ::) ::)

  I DO need some of them Vacuum pumps, though.  How's the weather and roads this time of year ??
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Jeff

We used to grind our own collars on the mill. They were not really "turned". The Machine came up missing but it was pretty elementary. just a fancy grinder and grinding wheel, with the face being of the spec angle. The grinder was blocked up and aligned to the end of the saw arbor. You would first grind the outside collar by putting it on the arbor backwards, with its inside face, facing out. You would fire up the mill so the face was turning. The Grinder, was powered up as I remember, it turned in the opposite direction of the collar.  There was a crank on the grinder, that moved the wheel in so it could contact the collar and grind it.  it only takes a touch. The outer collar was then taken off, then the inside collar was turned in the same manner. Attached are pages 19 and 20 of the lunstrom book which is in the public domain with the Forest Service.  I'll also put together a PDF from the book on checking for defective collars.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Here are the 3 pages put together as one topic from page 64, 65 and 66.

Saw Collars
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

D._Frederick

Check that the fixed collar is still tight on the arbor shaft, if it is slipping, it will tighten the nut to the breaking point. We had this problem on our No. 2 American, and had to have a new collar shrunk on the arbor shaft.

sawhead

On a lot of the fast collars ( the one on the mandrel) there will be small holes at the back that you can take a pin punch and tap the lug pins out. Wit the pins being sheared , definitely have the collars checked , bad collars will make your saw do bad things and almost cause you to lose your religion (experiance talking ) ;D





The journey of a thousand miles begins
with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire

UNCLEBUCK

 My fast collar looked fine but I had the outside collar machined the same time I took my blades for a hammering .  When I first started digging around on my old disston blade when I took it off there was some brown paper that fell out behind the collar,thats when I found the forestry forum because I was almost ready to pound the collar off , wouldnt that have been a classic move  ;D
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Ron Wenrich

The old paper behind the collar trick!  That was an old method for leveling saws on the mill.  I was shown this trick when I first started sawing.  Not a recommended  method, but it worked fine in my case.

What you would do, is to move your saw guides apart so the saw isn't rubbing and finding a point where the saw is midway between the guides.  Then you would rotate the saw and note if the position of the saw with either a o, +, or -.  If it was still center, then mark that tooth with a n "o".  As it pulled to the left, put a "+".  If it pulled even farther, you would go "++", addind + signs the farther you would go.  Pulling right of center would be "-".

After you were done, you would find a spot where there were a bunch of + signs on one side, and probably a bunch of - signs on the opposite side.  You would just shim up the - side with a piece of paper on the fast collar.

Like I said, not recommended, but it works.  Its better to get out the bugs, whether its in the saw or in the collars.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

shopteacher

If I use a dial indicator I should be able to mount it on the husk near the arbor and move the indicator toward the threads and read the amount of taper the flange has. Right?  What RPM should the blade turn? How far is Menominee from the pig roast?

Harold: Pennsylvania skipped winter this year. Roads are fine and it's a warm 36 deg. today.   Them pumps are in the same place I planted them.
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Fla._Deadheader


Warm 36, huh  ::) ::) ::) ???  Gee, can't wait to start the trip.  :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

shopteacher

That's the spirit Harold.  However I  must confess in trying to entice you to visit I exaggerated a little on the warm 36 it's really a cool 27 deg. now
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Ron Wenrich

I've seen mills run as slow as 325 RPM and as fast as 700 RPM.  But, a lot of those old Fricks were run about 525 RPM and they used a 471 or  671 Detroit.  I imagine your Corley would work well at that speed, if that's what your saw is hammered at.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Sawyerfortyish

My #1 Frick runs at 550rpm. thats also the speed that is stamped in the side of the blade.

Fla._Deadheader


Youster run the No. 2 at 550 to start.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Sawyerfortyish

Hey shopteacher is there anything stamped in the side of your blade. Mine has the speed as well as right or left hand the company that made the saw and the date the blade was made. My blade was made in 1957.

shopteacher

I'll have to check on that a little closer.  Off hand I didn't notice anything on the blade to that effect.  Anyone have one of those harbor freight inferred tachometer? If so what do you think of it quality wise?  I'm always a little suspicious of their stuff. Thought it might be a great way to set the engine speed  by the shaft rpm.
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Fla._Deadheader


Got a mechanical tach that ya push against the shaft end. It's in Florida.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Corley5

None of my saws have any markings on them.  I just make sure to tell the saw doc it's left handed and 500 RPM.  I've got one of those mechanical tachs around here somewhere.....
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

shopteacher

Now that you mention it I have a mechanical tach I bought off Ebay and have never used.  i plum forgot all about it. Thanks for the reminder.  How do you tell if the mill is left or right handed?
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Corley5

Facing the saw from the infeed side if the log passes on your left it's left hand and vice verse :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

Saws usually have a stamp on the log side of the saw.  So, you can tell a left handed from the right.  It has RPM and the serial number.

But, you can have saws hammered for any speed, so that stamp is pretty unreliable.  And, you can have a right handed saw hammered to left handed.  I've had it done.

Did the last owner tell you what speed they were running their engine at?  That should give you a hint on your RPM, as long as you set it up the same way.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

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