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How long is it safe to dead stack SYP

Started by brdmkr, February 17, 2006, 10:05:24 PM

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brdmkr

I've got a friend that is wanting me to cut up some SYP for board-and-batten indoor siding (he is going for a rustic look in his shop).  My plans are to dead stack off of the mill and let him be responsible for stickering (or putting the siding up directly).  Trouble is, I will have to work on this as I have time.  On the plus side, the area is well lit, so I could cut at night... Oops off topic :-\. 

My question is how long would it be safe for him to leave the green lumber dead stacked?  Would a few days be detrimental?  A week?

Thanks much for your help.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Minnesota_boy

Do you want a good reputation?  Sticker it as it comes off the mill and don't worry about it molding.  If you dead stack it and you get a couple warm days, you'll have mold.  Once you have delivered (or the customer has picked up) moldy wood, it will be hard to regain your reputation.  It doesn't take much longer to sticker and you can saw stickers from the same logs as you need them.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

getoverit

with SYP and warm days, you run the risk of it just gluing its self back together, making it impossible to get it back apart due to all of the pitch in it. I dont think mold is an issue unless there is already blue stain present in the wood.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

brdmkr

I have always stickered as I went.  He will not be there to help and we were trying to think of things that would make it easier on me.  I didn't really think that this would be best, but I wondered if there was any leeway.  Sounds like the answer is just plain NO.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Tom

SYP should be stickered as soon after sawing as possible.   Dead Stacking for a few hours is ok as long as it doesn't get rained on.   Rain washes all kinds of spores out of the air and they find the fresh lumber a garden plot.

If you must leave it for any length of time,  three days should be the maximum.

Blue stain is dependent on the innoculation of the wood by bark beetles.  Flat Stacking could possibly keep the moisture content ripe for its growth, but it is mostly an esthetic thing and doesn't affect the strength of the wood.  I would be worrying more about molds and mildew.  These can stain deeply, persist for long lengths of time and cause wood to rot.


Cedarman

Lets say you flat stack with the intention of it being only 2 days. Then it rains and rains or you get pulled away for some reason.  There you lay at night wondering if that flat stacked lumber is ruining itself, and you wish you had stickered it.  It just ruins a good nights sleep worrying.
Now imagine yourself laying there in bed with it raining and the lumber is stickered and it can rain all it wants.  You smile to yourself that you don't have to worry about it, roll over and sleep peacefully.

I hate the worrying.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Dan_Shade

up here in MD, i've had SYP mold being dead stacked after 18 hours.  this was in may or june.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

DuneCreature

Here in WV the rule of thumb to prevent blue stain is:

Summer time - Never, ever dead stack pine for any reason. Sticker it within hours or minutes if possible.

Wintertime - Dead stack for bundling and immediate delivery (1-3 days)

In between seasons - Better not dead stack unless you’re in the middle of a drought and need the rain. (Yes, Samantha, government studies have decisively concluded that dead stacking pine lumber in the open works better than cloud seeding for producing spring and fall ground soaking showers.)

I just got back from mid FL where I visited sawmills and bought SP through two summers. .. It looked to me like the fungus spores were landing on the SP planks and sprouting roots (or whatever those silly lil’ mys sprout) before the boards fell off the headrig. .. Bad lumber fungi juju, that FL heat and humidity in the summertime. Some days the whole stack of SYP would bloom black, brown, blue and white hair before quitting time.  .. Georgia may be similar. 
Wood Shavings and Sawdust - Not just another pretty byproduct.

DanG

Welcome DuneCreature!  You sound like you might fit in just fine around here.  Stick around a while, eh? :)

After doin' this stuff for a while, you tend to get a feel for what you can get away with.  A fella brought me a bunch of shortleaf pine to saw up a while back.  They had been down for quite a while and had been soaking in a swamp.  I'm here to tell ya, those were some heavy logs!  First 14' 2x8 I cut near-bout broke my back getting it off the mill! :o  I cut the first 1500bf and dead-stacked it for pick-up a day or so later.  When he got here to bring more logs, and pick up that lumber, it had grown the prettiest green hair you ever saw.  I piled the next batch of logs off the ground and let them dry out for a month, and they sawed out the prettiest lumber you ever want to look at, and never even tried to mold. ??? 
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

brdmkr

I was wondering when you would weigh in DanG.  I have pretty much decided to sticker.  It is just not worth the risk.  There would be about a 3-day delay between cutting and use.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

DanG

Well, there is some new info to go on. ;)  If it's only going to be 3 days, I'd still sticker, but I wouldn't be as particular about it as I would if it was going to be long-term.  3 sticks in 8 feet should do the trick if it isn't stacked too high.  You could cut the sticks along the edges of the logs as you square them up...wouldn't even matter if they had a little bark on them for that short time.  Make yourself one of them little sticker jigs like I use, and it takes a lot of the pain out of it. ;D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Dan_Shade

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

DuneCreature

Thanks, DanG, ‘tis a pleasure to meet you.

A great board Jeff and company have going here. Tons of good solid, practical experience and forestry wisdom from all.  ……… A leaky banana boat of fun to boot, I’ve noticed! ;)
Wood Shavings and Sawdust - Not just another pretty byproduct.

Cedarman

DuneCreature, Welcome.  That's a name to be noticed. Significance?

We made a jig to make stickers as we use thousands and thousands every year.  We made four X's out our 1x6.  Then connected the 4 X's with 1 x 6 x 7'   We make our stickers about 43" long.  The jig for us works with 8 foot strips.  We use cedar edging strips 7/8" thick.  Fill jig and then cross cut with chainsaw.  With the X's placed the right distance apart the stickers stay right where they are cut and can be picked up as needed.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

DanG

Dan, I just took one of those 'L' shaped slabs you can get with a dimension mill or a swinger, and nailed a board across one end.  I set the open end up on a stump next to the mill.  Then I made a cut with the chainsaw every 3 feet along the vertical side.(I make my stickers 3' long)  When I cut a 1x1, I just drop it in there and it slides down against the end board.  When it gets full, I just cut them up with the chainsaw and put them in the wheelbarrow.  It will hold about 20 1x1 strips.  If they're 12' long, I can get 80 stickers at a time for almost no effort, and it is all cut out of the waste.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

DuneCreature

Thank ye, Cedarman

The ‘DuneCreature’ handle actually predates the Internet all together. It got hung on me as a young whippersnapper fishing gypsy.

Being financially challenged in those days I would camp out in the dunes in order to spend serious time at the beach surf and pier fishing the Outer Banks in NC. The locals would watch me slog out of the sand dunes each morning all sun burnt, dehydrated and gritty. I never did figure out how to keep sand OUT of a sleeping bag or my hair and simply got used to it. One bait shop owner who could never remember my name started calling me DuneCreature. The name stuck like a mustard stain on a white shirt and I figured I’d been called worse things. The Internet came along and most common user ids have been taken so I revived the nick to use and abuse. …. I answer to DC, Dune, and Hey Stupid (courtesy of Ms Creature II) also.

How about your handle here, Cedarman? ….. Would that be Western Red or Aromatic?

To further flesh out my being here - I don’t own a sawmill BUT I do own a lot of down stream woodworking equipment and I’m considering buying a small bandmill. Possibly to modify as a resaw with some sort of removable conveyor table under a fixed head.  I really, really, really want a resaw with 12”-16” + capacity.

Hopefully ‘thread drift’ ain’t a hangin’ offence in these parts. … Maybe I’ll get off with a little ‘community service’ er sump’n.  ;D
Wood Shavings and Sawdust - Not just another pretty byproduct.

Cedarman

Dune, big thanks for the update.  You should fit in well around here. 

We  do nothing but eastern red cedar (aromatic).  I can talk ERC 24/7 as some poor souls have found out.

There is a topic on one of the boards on "How did you get your handle?"  It tells the story on a lot of the people you will meet on the forum.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Kirk_Allen

We dont have any SYP in our area.  My question, after cutting some with Tom and Dang, how do you use that stuff inside without kiln drying it?  Wont the sap just run out and down the wall when the heat comes one?

brdmkr

Kirk,

Personally, I wouldn't want to use SYP inside without drying and heat setting.  I have even discussed this with the guy IN DEPTH.  He seems to think it will not matter for his application.  I really have warned him!!!!  I hope that for what he is after that it works OK for him.  It seems that he has spoken with someone who did this and they encouraged him to move forward.  I really think I will bring this up to him one more time to MAKE SURE he understands.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

DanG

He probably won't have a problem with it, but I would be letting it dry out for a  few weeks.  Shrinkage is likely to be more of a problem than sap.  Air dried pine doesn't usually weep unless it is out in the sun.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

brdmkr

That's good to hear.  From all the talk on setting the sap, you'd think it would be a big issue.  The only pine I have ever cut has either gone home with someone else or was used in a pole shed, so my experience is limited.  I know that my gloves get pretty sticky when I handle the fresh cut lumber :)
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Tom

The pieces that will give problems are easy to spot.  The pitch pockets in a SYP board would take a lot of work, even in a kiln or oven, to stop the running.  I agree with DanG, running pitch in most air-dried boards isn't much of a problem.  It has to be thoroughly dried though.  To keep away from shrinkage, which can be a problem, the boards should be acclimated to their invironment for as much as 6 weeks to limit the amount of movement.

simonmeridew

The only SYP we ever see here in northern Vermont comes as pressure treated 5/4  X  6" for decks and porches. Boy is that stuff hard and heavy!!

On topic again, if we dead stack this time of year it's likely to freeze together. You need a pry bar and a maul to get it apart. No mold grows below zero however.
simonmeridew
Kubota L4400, Farmi 351

rbarshaw

Here in the Lowcountry, if you lay two SYP boards togeather while cutting up the rest of the log you are likely to get mold started. What I see here is a white fuzzy solid coat that is moist underneath and can grow to cover the entire board. I have to sticker everything immedeatly and put a fan on it or I get mold in a stickered pile ???
Been doing so much with so little for so long I can now do anything with nothing, except help from y'all!
By the way rbarshaw is short for Robert Barshaw.
My Second Mill Is Shopbuilt 64HP,37" wheels, still a work in progress.

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