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Tending your little piece of earth

Started by SwampDonkey, December 11, 2005, 01:39:24 PM

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SwampDonkey

Yes, I've done the same with sugar maple and they really do grow fast once established on the new site. Three foot annual height growth isn't uncommon. I'll take some pics tommorrow with the tape measure. Mine are in partial shade of spruce. Now on the other hand I have some black ash I transplanted that have hardly grown in 20 years. I think they are slower than ironwood. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

jon12345

3' a year growth will put a lot of the terminals out of deer browse height.  :)

The ones I transplanted are to form a hedgrow between the lawn and goldenrod patch,and are shaded in the morning by a  40' elm. My biggest problem was keeping the morning glory off of them  >:(

I need to rethink where I'm going to transplant more though, if any.  I was going to plant in the whole goldenrod, but I can't because I don't want the horseradish growin there to die off. :(


BTW << look what I made  ;D
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

SwampDonkey

Yeah I see what you made.  ;)

I have some white ash out in an old flower bed that get's morning glory. Can thank great grand mother for that stuff. I have to pull it or unwind it off the trees a couple times a year. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey



Difference in aspen growth on same ground. The taller stems are large toothed and the short are trembling.




54 inch internodal growth of transplanted  sugar maple. Growing in partial shade from white spruce.



Closer look
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

jon12345

There was only 1 trembling here, it blew over.  I cut it up and it had all kinds of sprouts on it.  Before I thought about making it clones, all the sprouts died.  I did go by there yesterday and noticed a sprout or 2 comin up by the root ball.  I think I'll wait til tey get a little bigger, then start clonin  :) The thing I like about those is that they do grow so DanG fast.

A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

jon12345

here are a couple 'before' pictures.


The blue lines are 4wheeler trails that will continue to be maintained.  The red line is where I'm putting in a hedgerow.  The space between is goldenrod, but we get horseradish out of there in the spring  :)  Where the brushpile is used to be a garden, that is where I am going to plant my aspen clones if succesful.  That little evergreen on the right I might have some questions about
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

SwampDonkey

I didn't think anything could kill horse radish. Can't even smother it with earth. Father cleared off an old homestead for field. The horse radish came back up and he plowed and sprayed herbicide on that field for 40 years and never did kill it. ;D :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Cloning aspen isn't so easy unless you use rooting hormone. Balm on the another hand doesn't require rooting hormone, grows like raspberry canes.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

jon12345

I've never seen horseradish growin under anything, so I'd rather just leave it alone.


I'd have to travel north to find any balsam.  Maybe I will just search the woods  :)

I want to plant some specimens too.   How many species do you have growin there?

of the top of my head all we have is:
sugar maple
red maple
apple
butternut
ash
black cherry
red pine
lilac
salix spp. that got brought in with some fill
and the newly found 'mystery' tree       
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

SwampDonkey

Ok, I think you mean on your woodlot. Because you have more than that state wide. Ok, here is my list on the woodlot, there are some others on my house property as well.

Softwoods
black spruce (seedlings)
white spruce
red spruce (seedlings)
balsam fir (moose food, but not preferred) ;)
white pine (seedlings)
red pine (seedlings)
hemlock (seedlings)
northern white cedar
tamarack (seedlings)
canada yew

hardwoods
trembling aspen (moose, grouse food)
large toothed aspen (moose food)
balsam poplar (moose food)
white birch (moose, grouse food)
yellow birch (moose, grouse food)
gray birch (moose, grouse food)
american elm
basswood (stump sprout selective)
butternut (seedlings)
black walnut (seedlings)
white ash
black ash
ironwood
sugar maple
red maple (moose food)
striped maple (moose food)
mountain maple (moose food)
willow (various species) baby moose food ;D
black cherry
pin cherry
choke cherry
apple
northern red oak (seedlings, saplings)
scarlet oak (seedlings)
beech (seedlings)
beaked hazel
dogwood (various species)
fly honeysuckle
bush honeysuckle
red berried elder (grouse food)
high bush cranberry (grouse food)
speckled alder (grouse food)

Everything is snow shoe hare food :D :D

At the house I have some others not mentioned

blue spruce
japanese larch
european larch
jack pine
box elder
lilac
wigellia (spelling)
sour cherry
service berry
mountain ash

That's all I can think of.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

jon12345

I want to add more softwoods for sure.  Red pines and that little shrubby lookin thing in the pic are all we got here now.  I will probably collect seed for them and try it like that.  I want to add

norway spruce
black spruce
red spruce
white pine
cedar
hemlock

white oak
red oak
yellow birch  - we had 1 in the yard but its coming down sooon


This is just for starters, I want to grow at least 1 of every possible species I can  :)

A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

Minnesota_boy

Got some wet spots?  Black spruce and cedar prefer their feet a bit damp.  Got deer?  The absolutely love little white pine.  I made a chicken wire fence around each of my white pines that I've transplanted to improve their chance of survival.  The wire is 4 feet high to keep them from reaching over and nipping off the terminal bud.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Minnesota_boy on February 16, 2006, 09:15:49 PM
Got some wet spots?  Black spruce and cedar prefer their feet a bit damp.  Got deer?  The absolutely love little white pine.  I made a chicken wire fence around each of my white pines that I've transplanted to improve their chance of survival.  The wire is 4 feet high to keep them from reaching over and nipping off the terminal bud.

I don't know if 'prefer' is the optimum term. They will definately do better on well drained soil. I have some black spruce planted in 1996, those near wet ground are 1 to 3 feet tall, those in well drained sandy clay loam are 6 to 12 feet tall. ;) I have tamarack in wet ground that seem to grow about as well as on dryer ground. Cedar grows faster on moist well draind ground than in swampy mushy ground. As far as white pine, if the hare doen't prune them to death the moose take thier antlers and rub off the bark and limbs.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Ok, so I had to add this picture of the 'Pill Bottle Treatment' ;D



Inside the pill bottle is a pencil and a datasheet used to record the growth of the tree and any treatments to the stand during the development of the tree. I will be installing pill bottles on a number of trees this year as it's been 10 years since the first plantation was established. I have some hardwood and other softwoods eyed for special attention.  ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Ok, I usually walk over my plantations with eyes wide open and am always aware of what is happening even if it seems trivial. What I have noticed for quite some time is, there is a significant difference in the growth increment between different seedling sources. What really rings true here is that I'm finding a significant difference in growth based on needle size. Now all my trees in this non scientific survey are spaced equally and are not over topped by other trees or weeds. The ground is the same soil type. The year they were planted has a 2 year gap between one source and another. I compared needles from two sample clippings with 20 other trees selected as random as neccessary. One sample clipping was taken from one of my best seedlings from DNR, planted in 1996. The other clipping was from a tree of one of the best seedlings from a private forest nursery. The two clippings where within 100 meters of one another and the aspect of both sites in south. Here is a picture of the clippings below.



The top clipping is from a DNR tree, the bottom is from the private nursery. So what is the significance of this? I've noticed that trees with larger needles put on growth 20 - 50 % faster than trees with needles 10-30 % smaller. The size in this study can vary by width or length. As I said, this is unscientific, but when you walk these plantations it's as plain as light vs dark. The species I'm comparing is black spruce, probably the most studied/nurtured tree species in Canada. I'm now about on the web to search for any published papers on the subject. I can't believe that such a study has been overlooked. Anyone with some info on this?

cheers
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ianab

Swamp.

Is it possible that one seedling was seed grown and another was grown from a cutting?  Even though both seedlings are the same age the cloned is genetically already 5 or 10 years old and will switch from juvenile growth to an adult growth mode much faster. Cuttings are often used for pine trees here in NZ for that reason, they grow faster and better form as they dont spend their first few years in a juvenile growth mode.

Just an idea, otherwise, well maybe one just came from genetically superior seed stock?

Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

SwampDonkey

No they were from seed, but the seed was from two different seed orchards. I have long said that the seedlings this private nursery has been selling are culls. We can't get seedlings from DNR any longer, they all get planted on Crown Land.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

crtreedude

The difference between certified teak seed and the other stuff is amazing. Your source of plants can make a profound difference in a few years. Not all seedlings are created equal.

Also, how they are planted creates a huge difference as well. I am sure you know all this - but just thought I would coment on it anyway.  ;D
So, how did I end up here anyway?

SwampDonkey

Same planting crew, same techniques. Just what I've come to realize, cull trees. ;D All I know is that if I compare the best microsites of one area to the other, the DNR trees are twice as tall and only 2 years difference.  ::) And where you plant the little tree (microsite) makes a very significant difference in growth. Sometimes you'll get someone not thinking and he sticks a tree in a dip in the ground where water lays and the trees there won't grow 4 inches a year even. They'll look like a 3 year old seedling and they have been there 10.  ::) But, I was comparing trees that were on good microsites. Anyway it sure is interesting. Also, if you have raspberry, it slows them up quite a bit too. They'll grow up through it, but they will be spindly and week for a bit once they get above it. Probably a 3 year delay in response to release from what I'm able to judge.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

crtreedude

Yes, there is a lot of varation between sites - we have a few trees looking weird right now - perhaps 20 or so - and I suspect it is because we just found a large pit of black volcanic sand! Not sure yet.

This is sure interesting.

So, how did I end up here anyway?

SwampDonkey

Some microsites even look wet because of the vegetation and periodic high water table, but as long as it's not saturated during the growing season and the water is draining well so it's not stagnet, the trees will grow just as well as on a well drained knoll. I've experimeted with those kinds of sites, you just have to be careful planting the tree and also be aware that it is more susceptible to windthrow when it gets big. I've been on some spruce sites in the wild and your just walking on roots all day. Some hard on the feet, but the spruce seem to be doing real well there as long as it's not stagnet ground water.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

thecfarm

Just had to say something crtreedude.Now you have a scraf and earmuffs on?The snow is getting deep.   smiley_sombrero smiley_sombrero
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

SwampDonkey

No pictures yet, probably not necessary, but I have been getting some of my ground ready for thinning this spring. I have some sections with a lot of sugar maple and ash within the planted stock. I wanted to make sure we left as much ash and maple as possible and good quality ones. The best way I can think of doing this is to flag the crop trees so the thinning saw operator does not have to slow up when he's spacing and selecting trees to leave. Just has to worry about spacing and getting the stuff to the ground. I want to leave the hardwood as tight as possible 5-6 feet preferably since they are not really that tall. I wouldn't treat the area yet if it weren't for the fact that some of the softwood is getting pretty big on some sections. We have about 12 acres to space on the woodlot next spring and I think close to 3 acres on the adjoining woodlot.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

I've come to the conclusion that the neighboring woodlot owner is crazier than a bag of hammers. Looks like he won't be having his stands thinned. Pretty soon they'll be too big and I'll here nothing but bad mouthing. Some people just can't be educated while their mouth is moving. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

jon12345

The project I was working on at my mom's got put on hold, she said she wanted the junk out then told me to stop what I was doing.  She likes trees that are dying, have multiple leaders and other defect.  :D  What I did cut turned into bushes from stump sprouts, at lease the deer will have somethin to eat  :) The sugar maple in the area I cut is doing good except they are almost all double leaders, but I don't think that'll be a problem since I just want them to reach 9" asap.   
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

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