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plastic sleeves for wood posts

Started by Tim L, February 09, 2006, 06:11:06 PM

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Tim L

I recently saw a website for plastic sleeves for pole barn posts. Does anyone have knowledge of these? The idea sounds good but I have limited wood skills. I just ordered a Turner trailer model and want to saw out a barn. The company that produces these claim the sleeves are vented and wood won't rot but I'm skeptical .By the way I am a newbie and have loved reading all the posts !
Do the best you can and don't look back

etat

I've always just  coated them with burnt motor oil  and packed gravel around them.  Or if I was putting concrete around them I'd wrap some visqueen or put some heavy garbage sacks around them first.  Concrete against posts in the ground will definately rot them .  I haven't seen the plastic sleeves but I can't see them doing much of anything that the visqueen wouldn't do.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Tim L

I hate to sound like a bowl of gritts but what is visqueen ?






Unnecessary language edited by administration.
  >:(
Do the best you can and don't look back

Radar67

The clear plastic you use to put down under concrete when pouring a slab.

Welcome to the forum. FYI - the boss don't like no foul language here. This is a family forum. The official cuss word for the site is "DanG".

Stew
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Tim L

My apologies for the language, now I feel like a DanG fool.
Do the best you can and don't look back

Buzz-sawyer

Hey we can all be a smart  crappie....or a dumb bass :o :o :D :D
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Tim L

Do the best you can and don't look back

srjones

Hey, welcome to the forum....do you happen to remember the link?  Sounds interesting....
Everyone has hobbies...I hope to live in mine someday.

etat

Heck, dum bass doesn't sound so bad, I've been one a them a BUNCH of times!   :D


Oh, around here we use black plastic instead of the clear.  I imagine once it's buried or covered up there wouldn't be much difference in it. 
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Tim L

Do the best you can and don't look back

Dana

Ctate, I use used motor oil for my pole barn post. What is the advantage of burnt motor oil? ???
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

moosehunter

We burn used oil for heat. It ain't much good after it's been burnt!

If anyone is curious; we get about 5 gallons of ash after burning 1000 gallons of used motor oil.

Almost free heat 8)
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days".    Ray Wylie Hubbard

Qweaver

Ctate said, "Concrete against posts in the ground will definately rot them"

I've been concreting posts all of my life and I've dug out concreted posts that have been in the ground more than 40 years that had no rot.  The bottom of the post must be left open so that water can leak out.  I usually just throw a shovel full of CLS in the hole so that very little concrete gets under the post.  I'm about to build a TF that will set on 8x8 treated posts.  The holes will be belled and concreted and I'd like to be sure that I'm not going to have a post rotting problem! 
Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

etat

Perhaps because of your soil conditions or climate?

My experience around here has been quite the opposite. Cedar is the worst and even locus will start rotting and eventually have to be replaced.  I've also replaced a few pressure treated that were put under decks but they will last a bit longer because of the treatment?  About 8 to ten years or so is about what they last and then theres not much left where its in the concrete.  I did have some cedar fence post that I pulled up that I made the mistake of putting in concrete about 7 or 8 years ago, if they're still around I'll take a picture.   

QUOTE:  from here..... http://www.buildingspecs.com/articles_decks.asp   .....The problem occurs when the post is put into the ground, and concrete is poured around the post. Once the concrete has set, the post has established a pocket in which water can collect. The water is absorbed into the post and cannot dry out. In colder climates the water freezes and can crack the concrete. Additionally, the deck should be bearing on top of the footing and not in it. Some people are under the misconception that..........i


putting gravel in the bottom of the hole before pouring the concrete will help some around here (mostly heavy clay soil) but they will still rot eventually
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

TW

I do not know much about the climate and wood species you have over there but over here people seldom cast in poles in concrete. It was a common practise in the sixties but it did not last well.
You have to be good at running to get out of sight before it is rotten ;D

Nowadays there are two methods:
1The pole end is encased in a welded steel socket that is above the concrete surface and has one or another kind of steel leg(s) that is cast into the concrete. There are even factory made galvanized ones. The wood is kept in dry air with no contact with the concrete.
2You can also simply cast in two U channel bars so they protrude straigh upwards, one on each side of the post. The bars and the post are bolted together. The bottoms of the U:s are usually towards the post. The post stands with it's end on the concrete surface. There should be a piece of roof felt (or whatever you call it in English) between the end of the post and the concrete.

The steel may in some cases rust at the concrete surface so it must sometimes be overdimensioned a bit.

Do not paint the parts of steel that are going to end up in conctete.

Don P

If there is not a footing under a post then the post section alone is the bearing surface, the concrete sleeve adds nothing to the bearing. That would be failed here. I have replaced encased posts that rotted in the concrete. For drainage if you do bury the post on a footer you can backfill the hole with gravel. Plans I see usually call for a 2'x2'x8" post footing with 2-#4 rebars each way in the pour. Soil contact treated should be .60 or better ACQ or CCA. Many places sell .40, .20, or "treated to refusal" don't bury any of those. Can't help on the post sleeve question, it looks to me like a waste of money  ???.

Tim L

Thanks everyone for the info, I have yet to find anyone with experience with these. I did have one buddy who sprayed fence posts (non-pressure treated) with automotive undercoating . He said that fence stood for 12 years until he sold the house and moved while his neighbor went through two fences that were set in cement.
Do the best you can and don't look back

thedeeredude

You could also try perma column

www.permacolumn.com

Tim L

I like it !  That looks like the way to go if its reasonably priced. If not I may pour a slab and go with conventional framing if the building Gods will allow it .
Do the best you can and don't look back

ARKANSAWYER


  I have stopped putting wood in the ground.   When I did it was on/in crushed stone with old engine oil coating everything.
  Now I use "sonic" tube to pour concrete in and mount a bracket  to.   We clear the site and dig holes for the post.   We put in the cardboard sonic tubes and back fill around the and cut them all off level.  We can check and resquare till we pour.   Once we pour the concrete we level the floor with fill to the tubes and bolt down the brackets.
  Better to keep wood out of the ground and if the sleeves can wick water out it can let water in.


ARKANSAWYER

TW

Arkansawyer
Your method is roundabout the same as the same as the steel socket method I tried to describe.
It seems like my bad English in combination with no digital camera makes it difficult for me to make things clear. Now you made it clear.
The only important difference is that the bolt can transmit much less bending force to the concrete than a cast in "leg" made from thick reinforcement bar and welded to the bracket.




ARKANSAWYER


  TW you are right!   I use the drill and bolt method because it allows me to move the timbers around a bit and fine tune.   When I cast the thing in the concrete they never seem to be in the right place.
ARKANSAWYER

jpgreen

Arky-

So did you pour the sonotubes with a long bolt sticking out, then pour a concrete slab over that?  Then bolt down your brackets on the slab?  Or do you pour the whole thing at once?

I wasn't sure if you had a slab floor, or just the sonotubes.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

jpgreen

Here's the way I did my 26' x 28' slab for my (future) wood shop this past fall.

I dug 18" x 18" footers and welded up steel post brackets and rebar that set in the footers, and through the top slab.  It was all poured at once (with top 4" slab) on the first half along with the footers on the sloped side half, the we poured the second slab over the second half the next time.












-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

ARKANSAWYER


   The photo is of just a slab.   On the tubes I pour them full and then drill about 8 inches deep and set a 1/2 x 10 inch bolt down in that locks when you pull it up tightening the bolt.   There is wire and rebar in the tubes that will keep it all together.    Most of the time I drill the holes about 3 days after pouring but do not bolt or build on for 3 to 4 weeks.
  On houses with a slab like in the photo they only need 4 inches of concrete for the floor.  So we pour 2'x2'x2' blocks below grade with rebar sticking up then pour the 4 inch slab over in about 3 days time.   This is for timber frames and where the timbers will land.   A note, our frost line is 16 inches here and bed rock is not very deep in most places.
ARKANSAWYER

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