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question about a log truck

Started by BlakeChorselogger, February 09, 2006, 02:57:57 PM

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BlakeChorselogger

hello
we live in n. mn and are trying to find a truck with a loader that can both make landings more organized and haul logs to sawyer.  It must also be small enough to pull a twenty foot bumper pull trailer with a team of horses and log arch inside...

I have found a used 85 GMC 6500 with 44k gvw - 34 back and 10k front - it has a prentice 110 loader mounted at back of 18ft bed.  Truck has a 13 spd and gas motor.
does anyone have experience with these trucks?  Does the prentice loader seem to be a good match for the truck?  Iam concerned about weight?  also - what kind of experience will I have pulling a 2oft horse trailer with this rig?
thanks for any input!

beenthere

Welcome to the forum Blakechoreslogger

Good questions. If you know someone in the area that has a similar truck, I'd ask them to haul some logs for you, with payment in mind, and ask them also to try to tow your trailer with horses and all. Good chance you will find out how well it works without spending the money to buy a truck and then find out it won't work.
Sure sounds like a great combination to work with.  Too bad the loader won't just slide that horse hauler onto itself and carry it to the woods.
On another thought, a smaller horse trailer without the log arch inside (haul it on the log truck) might be a more workable solution lengthwise. Or train the team to climb onto the logging truck  ;)  Nope, not a good idea.  ::) :)

How are you getting logs hauled out now?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

hosslog

Howdy,Can't help you much with the truck. Only thing I thought of was turning the rig around. I have a 20 foot goose neck that I haul with a one ton dually. Some of the places that I have to get into are kinda cramped. A bigger rig would be real unhandy.

sawguy21

It sounds like it was set up to haul sheetrock or roofing material. You are limited to the deck length because of the picker and rear axle weight will be an issue. I assume it is a tandem. Most of the self loaders I have seen had the crane behind the cab to put more weight on the steering axle.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

BlakeChorselogger

thanks for the input, we now have a one ton dually to haul the horses.  when we need extra help stacking or just have a small load too small for big semi , we go home and get a skid steer and trailer, then load trailer and have to yank with chain or hand unload at home or at sawmill then go back for skidsteer- hassle...

the GMC looks like it has been a woods rig - winch on front, big headache rack, etc only about 50k miles - I suspected weight of loader back on tandem plus logs plus bumper pull would cause issues.  Does anybody know how heavy a prentice 110 is ?  I have looked on web with no luck.

maybe a smaller loader like a nokka, patu, or one I just found here - the blue ox could be mounted on back of one ton which would do away with need to haul the skidsteer... for landing or loading on my other trailer

have any of you used a smaller loader mounted on back of one ton (type of loader with small motor and hyd pack)?  I had been thinking a chev 3500 may not be big enough - would a F450 or 550 or similar chev be better?  or size of F700 etc?

thanks again

DanG

Hi Blake.  That 6500 Jimmy isn't even going to notice that horse trailer back there.  34K rears is pretty stout, and is probably a dual/tandem setup.  I'd definitely check it out, but keep in mind, as Hosslog said, it won't be too good in the tight spots.  Also, I think it will require a CDL. It was probably set up with the loader on the rear to load itself and a PUP trailer.  No doubt, though, it will definitely handle your trailer. ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

isassi

And did anyone mention fuel burn on a gas engine/13 speed combo? Unless you will only be running around local, I would give a little thought to having the gas engine and my money would be to keep looking...diesels were made for big trucks.  In the late '70s, Halliburton had lots of big International Paystar 5000's, (a class larger then the GMC you are considering) and they ran gas engines, big 505 cid's. It was all about the fleet economy. Buy them all the same, smallest, cheapest moter, ect. Those trucks could make about 40 mph loaded and I never saw one going faster then 50. They broke down a lot. Drivers hated them, and they all had huge fuel tanks compared to the diesel 5000's I drove at that time. and gas then was .70 a gallon. I know nothing about logging and I know trucks, but I bet you won't like the gas burner up front.

sawguy21

I imagine the drivers hated those gaspot Paystars :D The suits only look at the capital costs at budget time
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

barbender

I'd have to agree with joasis- I sure wouldn't want a gas motor in a big truck.  Poor mileage ( 5-6 mpg) no power, they don't seem to hold up very well and they're always broke down it seems.  My grandad had a couple single axle ford end dump's (F-600 and F-7000) the 600 had a 370 gas and the 7000 had a 3208 cat diesel. I really hated that gas motor, you pretty much had to abuse it to get it moving down the road. The diesel had tons of power, got really good mileage, and we never had a lick of trouble with it. So, for myself, I'd never buy a big truck with a gas motor.
Too many irons in the fire

ScottAR

Years ago, We had a F800 with a gas and a 5/2.  Got 4 mpg loaded or unloaded. 

The city utility here has a chevy dump with a gas/13spd.  It sits by the shop now that they got a new dump with a diesel/auto. 
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

Ironwood

BlakeChorselogger,

I am using a F-550 with a trailer with a crane to load logs. For my limited need to move logs it works well. I do need a ground man to help place the tongs. If I where doing volume I would need a grapple. I would say for smallish loads a 550 would be fine. If you have a CDL then a rig like the Blue Ox with the 550 would be great. I just couldn't justify a CDL for the limited use I have hauling logs. I just use a tandem trailer (one 10,000 gvw pictured, and a 15,000 gvw triple) You may be better served (if you don't have or want a CDL) by a F-350 4x4 with the crane/loader on the truck and a 14,999lb log bunk trailer behind due to combination laws (at least from what I can glean) This would mean your truck (11,000gvw) and your trailer (14,999gvw) would keep you under the DOT 26,000 gross combination for which beyond you need a CDL. This is from my understanding of what I have heard. Most police don't even understand how this all works!!!!!






            Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Sawyerfortyish

I got a paystar 5000 with a 350 cummins. It has a prentice 120 loader on it. I've run it since 1990 and has served me well. Never left me sittin along the road. It's only a tamdom but the bigest problem is making axle weight. You just can't do it with a tamdom hauling logs. You have to have that third axle to help carry weight. Even a light load you'll be over on the rear of a tandom. I have mine licensed with farmer plates. In this state they don't axle weigh a farm truck. But i've been told im in a very grey area of law useing a farm truck for commerical logging ::)

wiam

Here in VT that is not a grey area.

Will

getoverit

If it were me, I would opt for something like this

click on this link

This knuckleboom truck with flatbed  is for sale in Indiana for $24,000

You can load the truck with logs, load the trailer with logs, and still have enough to easily pull the horse trailer loaded with horses, arch, and logs too. For my kind of thinking, this is a bargain. The knuckle boom is rated at 10,000# and should easily load just about any log you come across. With a fork attachment, it could even load a pallet or a bunk of wood too.

This one is a gas engine too, but I'm sure you could find one like it with a diesel engine in it for a reasonable price.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

sawguy21

That is a sweet unit. Now we throw a tag under it fer some serious log haulin'. ;D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

VA-Sawyer

getoverit,

Are you sure that truck is in Indiana ? The link says the seller is in Idaho.   " Missed it by thaaaaat much." Agent Maxwell Smart   :)

getoverit

 :D :D :D

ahem...... its somewhere up there in yankee land  :D :D

Too far from Florida to be any good to me... still a GREAT deal though
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Ironwood

Correct me folks if I am wrong, with 25,000 gvw you can only pull a 1000 lb trailer without a CDL. Yes, nice truck for sure. I like cab forward for space effiecency reasons. I looked at Mitsubishi FC 4x4 but the parts availability(locally and $) and HP seem to be an issue. I like to be able to roll into any parts store and get what I need.
                            Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

johnjbc

In Pa any trailer of 10,001 or more requires a CDL ::) ::)
LT40HDG24, Case VAC, Kubota L48, Case 580B, Cat 977H, Bobcat 773

Brian_Rhoad

John, that was before the CDL. That was when the license was class1, 2 or 3. Now in PA you can tow any trailer up to a 26,000 lb combination without a CDL. If you go over 10,000 lbs on the trailer or  you must have a combination license on the truck for the total weight of the truck and trailer (CGVW). Any size gooseneck or fifth wheel must also have a combination license. If you have a 26,000 lb truck you can tow a 10,000 lb trailer with a class C license. Thats what I was told by PennDOT.

Warren

Blake,

I have a 1980 Chevy C70 with a big gas motor (366/427) , 4x2 trans, one rear axle, construction knuckle boom w/o grapple., running farm tags under 26,000 in KY.  I've been using it to pick tree service logs and to load and turn logs on my WM LT15.  What I can tell you about my particular truck:

1) 4 to 5 mpg loaded or unloaded.
2) Cold natured / tempermental starting in cold weather.
3) 50 mph is a comfortable top end.  Definitely not a highway truck for long hauls.
4) Drum brakes do not inspire confidence with a good load on.

I bought the truck and knuckleboom for less than half the cost of the knuckleboom, so I can't complain.  It's given me good service and has helped me get started.  But, over the last 18 moths, I've "learned" that my next truck will have:

1) A diesel motor
2) Tandem rears
3) Disk / pneumatic brakes

I know this type set up will require a CDL license (Class B ?).  But I figure the license will be worth the fuel economy, lack of aggravation, and safety factor.  The guys above are giving you the straight scoop on the gas motor.  There's a reason why they are generally cheaper than the diesel set ups.

Warren
LT40SHD42, Case 1845C,  Baker Edger ...  And still not near enough time in the day ...

johnjbc

Brian
This is still on the WEB Site in CDL Manual for Pa.
And it also says that on my license.
Up to 10,000 is OK 10,001 is a problem even if empty.

http://www.dot10.state.pa.us/pdotforms/pa_forms_manuals/pub223.pdf




The Program requires you to have a
Commercial Driver's License (CDL) if you operate, or plan to operate any of the following
Commercial Motor Vehicles (CMV's):
a) A combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more,
provided the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.b) A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 or more pounds.
c) A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
d) A school bus designed to carry 11 passengers or more, including the driver.
e) Any size vehicle which transports hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in
accordance with Department regulations.

CLASSIFICATIONS
With the implementation of the Commercial Driver Licensing Program, Pennsylvania adopted a new
classification system. CDL classifications include:
CLASS A
A Class A license is issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their
qualifications to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001
pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle or vehicles being towed is in
excess of 10,000 pounds. The holder of a Class A license is qualified to operate vehicles for which a
Class B or Class C license is issued. Where required, appropriate endorsements must be obtained.
CLASS B
A Class B license is issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their
qualifications to operate any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or
more or any such vehicle towing a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than
10,000 pounds. The holder of a Class B license is qualified to operate vehicles for which a Class C
license is issued. Where required, appropriate endorsements must be obtained.
CLASS C
A Class C license is issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their
qualifications to operate any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than
26,000 pounds or any combination of vehicles, except combination vehicles involving motorcycles,
that does not meet the definition of a Class A or Class B vehicle. Where required, appropriate
endorsements must be obtained.
NOTE: You must be 21 years of age or older to operate a Commercial Motor Vehicle interstate. This
applies to ALL classes.
In addition to the CDL classes, there are also special endorsements and restrictions that you must
have to drive certain types of commercial vehicles. They are:
ENDORSEMENTS/RESTRICTIONS
ENDORSEMENTS
H -Required to drive a vehicle with hazardous materials placards (you must be 21 years of age).
N -Required to drive a tank vehicle.
T - Required to drive double and triple trailers.
P -Required to drive a vehicle designed to carry passengers (buses).
S -Required to drive a school bus.
X - Represents a combination of the hazardous materials and tank vehicle endorsements
(you must be 21 years of age).


LT40HDG24, Case VAC, Kubota L48, Case 580B, Cat 977H, Bobcat 773

isassi

A class A or B CDL is not a big deal, study a little and go take it. I am guessing you have a plave that rents a truck for the test, and yes, I know it can clip a few hundred by the time you are done, but you have it from then on. One of the comments I hear around this area is guys do not want a CDL since then they are registered nationally. Ok...so what? The same directory also contains regular license  info now. DOT enforcement across this country can be and is severe and the safe thing to do is never guess when the rule is marginal, the trooper writing the ticket will give you his opinion for sure. One other thing about GVW and loads, there is a guy in my town who hauls a 580 Case backhoe, on a 2 axle GN trailer rated at #14000....A friendly DOT Oficer pointed out the 14K is gross....not net...the fine was over $500 and in Oklahoma, if they think you really pushing it, they can stop you where you are and have it all hauled in for impound. Laws vary, of course, but I would not push it...Oklahoma has the rep of being easy compared to most other states.  :P

Sawyerfortyish

In N.J. you don't need a CDL if your a farmer and have farm plates on the truck. I have a class A CDL licence anyway. I went a took the test before they made it harder. In N.J. if your trailer is over 10000lbs I'm pretty sure you need a class A licence for the combination truck and trailer.

BlakeChorselogger

thanks for all the beta - Iam thinking about staying under cdl and going with a small loader that will load trailer and help out at the landing - leave the big loads to full size trucker down the road

anybody got a small Ox, patu, nokka, etc used?

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