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Questions about tractor, need answers FAST!!!

Started by loudsam, February 08, 2006, 08:05:47 AM

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loudsam

Hi, this is Mr. STUPID again,

As dumb as this may sound, (probably unbelievably dumb), I need to know a couple of things about a tractor.  I've got an opportunity to buy a Massey-Ferguson 135.  I'll quote what the ad says;  "gas engine, wide front, PTO, 3 point, $3,750."

I haven't looked at it yet, but people around here are usually pretty honest.  Problem is, I don't know if this tractor would be a good deal for me for moving logs around, etc.  Could I put a forklift on it, or a backhoe?  I don't know ANYTHING about tractors.  Would I be able to skid logs out of my woods with it?

Please answer as soon as you can, cause I'm going to be calling the guy this morning.  Does anyone know about, or have used this model tractor before?  I don't even know what a 3 point hitch is or does.  I don't even know what "PTO" means!!!  Please HELP!

Thanks in advance,
Mr. STUPID ???

HOGFARMER

Pto means power take off.  It is a 6 splined shaft coming out of the back of the tractor.  It is used for powering implements such as a brush hog etc.  Three point hitch is how implements are hooked to the tractor it is the industry standard for quite a few years.  This tractor could pull logs out of the woods.
Manual LT-30

scsmith42

Loudsam, there are no stupid questions, (but I have heard a few stupid answers!.... but not on FF of course!).

PTO is "Power Take Off".  This is a 6 splined shaft at the back of the tractor that drives attachments that typically hook up to the 3 point hitch.  Examples of PTO driven attachments are mower decks, hay balers, concrete mixers, generators, rotary tillers, you name it.

A 3 point hitch is a universar way to attach implements to the back of a tractor.  The implement attachees in three places, hence the "3 point" name.  There are several different types of 3 point implements depending on tractor HP.  They are class 0, 1 and 2.  Typically tractors in the 20 - 50 hp range have class 1 3 point hitches, which is probably the most common. The difference between the classes is the size of the attachment pins, and spread between them.  You can put class 2 pins on a class 1 implement, and vice versa.

Typically all ag related tractors will have a 3 point hitch in back, and industrial rated tractors (such as backhoe's, forklifts, etc) do not.  

A friend of mine has a MF 135 similar to what you describe.  His has a loader on it for loading round hay bales.

A few comments.  First, if you need a tractor with a loader, they buy one with one already installed.  Trying to find a loader for a 135 may be a challenge.

Second, if you're going to use a loader on a tractor, MAKE SURE THAT THE TRACTOR HAS POWER STEERING!  If not, once you pick up a load on the tractor the steering may freeze up on you.  Driving my friends 135 with a hay bale will definitely build up your biceps, but it's also more dangerous.

Additionally, tractors with loaders typically need to have wider front tires and heavier front axle's than ones without.  Stay away from skinny tires; they don't have the load bearing capacity needed.

Re the backhoe, you can put anything on anything, but the real question is is it "practical" to put a backhoe on it.  PTO attached backhoes are generally not quite as desireable as one that attaches to rails under the tractor.   You will also need a high volume hydraulic supply for the backhoe, but some of the aftermarket 3-point hitch ones include a pto driven pump.  A 135 should be able to drive a small backhoe.

You may end up spending much more than the cost of the tractor trying to find a loader, power steering, and a backhoe for it.  Typically you're better off searching for the complete package.

For moving logs, I would suggest a heavier and newer tractor than a 135.  You will not be able to pick up a very large log with a loader on it.  It would probably skid ok as long.

Good luck.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

JimBuis

3 point hitch:  this is the towing connection for attachments behind the tractor such as farm implements, mowers, etc.  It consists of 3 arms that connect to the auxiliary equipment you are using.  There have historically been other kinds of hitching systems, but this is the one that has withstood the test of time.

PTO:  power take-off, this is the tractor manufacturer's provision for using the tractor's engine to power other pieces of equipment.  It is ordinarily a shaft that protrudes from the tractor's transaxle and engaged or disengaged by a separate lever.  It is often used to power auxiliary equipment that does not have its own engine such as mowers pulled behind the tractor.

The tractor you are talking about is a nice little farm tractor, BUT do not plan putting a serious backhoe on it.  You can put a front end loader on it and a set of fork tongs to lift some small logs on occasion, BUT nothing real big.  It'd probably drag some good sized logs around the lot if it is a short distance in good traction.  I would not plan on pulling much out of the woods with it though.

Good luck,
Jim
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

farmerdoug

Loudsam,

You can just about do anything with a tracor.  Just look at the people that skidded logs with an 8N.  But I think you should look for an larger tractor with an front end loader and the pto and 3 pt already on it.  The price for the 135 is the going rate around here so you are not missing out on a deal.  I bougt an F-806 gaser for 1900.00 deliveried from a dealer 3 years ago and an F-806 diesel at an auction 2 years ago with an rebuilt engine for 3000.00 so the deals are out there.

Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

loudsam

Hi Hogfarmer, SCSmith, and Jim!  Thanks alot guys.  When I said I don't know anything about tractors, I think you all realized I meant ANYTHING! ::)
I mean, I'm the guy, (per previous post), that doesn't even own a CANT-HOOK yet! 8)  But I thought, when I read the local "advertiser" this morning and saw the ad for the tractor, "heh, this might be just what I need". ???  I mean, I wouldn't want to pass up a good deal!  Kind of like when I bought the sawmill!  Maybe I should have thought about how I was going to move logs, FIRST. :o   Oh well, all's well that ends well.

You guys are really great though!  It's like having smart friends, that I can ask questions of, and I haven't even met any of you guys yet!  I really mean it when I say THANKS!

Another couple of questions, if your still online.  Do you think, if the tractor was in good shape, that the price sounds right?  Also, would I be able to sell it for a decent price if I outgrow it in a year or two?  I really don't need to have a "high-production operation" right at the moment, as I'm only home about 4 months a year until I retire.  Most of that time seems to be spent "shopping" with the wife anyways. >:(  By what you've told me, I think I could probably skid logs up to about 24" by 12 or 16 feet out of my woods without too much problem with that tractor, what do you think?

BTW Farmerdoug, I just read your post.  I think you guys may be kinda telling me that I should wait.  Thanks for the advice, I think you kind of helped me make up my mind to just wait till I see what's out there.  There are always ads in the paper for tractors around here.  I might be able to find one that's more suited for what I need it for if I wait!

Thanks again,
Doug :)


jpgreen

Good advise all around the house Doug.

I would wait.

If it was selling for half (or less) of what they go for, then I would consider it.

Get a deal on one with everything you need on it.  It's out there.  Patients. ;D...smiley_beertoast
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

loudsam

Yea, I think your right JPGreen.  The more I think about it, the more I figure I should wait.  Thanks!

Doug ;D

beenthere

loudsam
Maybe spend some time (while waiting) visiting others who use tractors to get some sense about what is available and what fits the things you want to do. Dealers in the area will have tractors with front loaders and forks and backhoes, and even some used ones. Resist the urge to get the first one, but you also can 'invest' in something to 'play' with and use it to trade up as you get more experience and demand more work out of the 'plaything'.

Tractor in the 35hp and up, 4 wd, easy-to-remove FEL (front-end-loader), 3pt, PTO, power steering, would be a minimum to get in the woods with, and to do many chores around the 'farm' and woodlot. They will handle rotary brush cutters, farmi-winch, forks, rear blades, snowplow, snowblower, lawn mower, rear ballast box for use with FEL, and the list can go on and on.

No 'dumb' questions here and hope you keep asking for info.  :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

loudsam

Thanks alot Beenthere!  I'm going to have a boat-load of stupid questions, I think.  But, I'm having fun, and I sure do appreciate the help!  Immensely!

Doug 8)

jpgreen

-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Luckyfarmer

Sam, when you see the model number on small tractors, they are telling you the horse power.  The 135 Massey is 35 hp.. The 560 Farmall is 56 hp

thurlow

RE: model number/horsepower.  Sorry, I disagree;  may be true for the 2  listed, but is not a reliable indicator. ::) ::)
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

Minnesota_boy

Just how many logs of what size are you planning to skid.  It may surprise you what size of log a small tractor can skid, and if you add a log arch, the size limit is much bigger.  I do most of my logs with a Ferguson TO-30, smaller than that MF-135 and it handles most of them just fine.  I've run a 135, but that was over 30 years ago.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

beenthere

Luckyfarmer
Did you just upgrade my Deere 4300 to 43 hp?  It's more like 33  ;D

But the model's mentioned could be. Don't know any of the Deere models where that works, but I might be missing something and will keep my eyes more open now.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

mike_van

loudsam, just my opinion, but before I jump into something new, I try to  read all I can find on it - smart of you to ask here, I agree don't buy the first thing that pops up - Do as much research as you can - online, local dealers, whatever - it all helps build up your "knowledge base"
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

treeboy

Hi Loadsam, I was kind of in the same boat. I needed something and thought I should buy quickly - my wife made me hold off till I found a pretty good deal.

Do lots of research, get to know the prices - but what about auctions in your area? Ritchie bros are up here and all over the world. If you sign up - you can use their rbauction results to see what equipment has sold for.

farmerdoug

Loudsam,  I am not trying to send you away from this site but if you want a good place to read up on older tractors(before roughly 1980) then try this site.  I go there first when I need some info on a farm tractor and they can be almost as helpful as here.

http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/



Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Luckyfarmer

Beenthere

check deere 630,730 and 830 hp...after 4010 it changed

Ed_K

 The Mf 1433 I had was 33hp, the new Landini 5860 is 60 hp, 58 pto hp. It all depends on manufacture.
A MF 135 w/3pt hitch with a drawbar attached to it will work great. you get a couple of grab hooks that pin to the drawbar. hook a chain to the log back up the it lower the 3pt hook up, lift the log and go. IF the front goes up cut the log shorter. AND be real careful not to let the log catch on anything that could hang it up, as the tractor can tip over backwards.
Ed K

Max sawdust

Gosh Golly,
My little Deere 855 (24HP Yamar Diesel) with a good late model Deere bucket will pick up and stack 16' 18" oak also will pick up 26" 8' oak or aspen, with a Farmi winch I can pull tree length (80' stick) 24" but with it.
Yes it is underpowered, but it is what I have ::)

If you use a small tractor for big jobs I recomend a ROPS cab ;)  Cause you may get in trouble ;)

Always get the biggest tractor you can afford, but it is amazing what a smaller tractor can do.  Buy the bucket with the tractor especially if it is an older one. :)
Max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

thurlow

Horsepower for Deere 630; between 32.66 and 50.34, depending on whether it's gas, LP or distillate; belt/PTO or drawbar.  730; between 41.29 and 59.61, depending on whether it's gas, LP or distillate, belt/PTO or drawbar.  830 diesel between 61.8 and 75.6 depending on year (1957 or 1958) and whether belt/PTO or drawbar............from J.R. Hobbs definitive web page and tractordata.com :P
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

beenthere

Luckyfarmer
I checked.
I had 420 which was 'in' the series (2-cyl) with the earlier 530, 630, 730 and 830. My 420 had about 27 drawbar hp. The 30 series had the same engines as the 20 series, and listed same gas drawbar hp as
420   27hp
520   34
620   44
720   53
820   62 and the later 820 and 830 were upped to 70 (The diesel models of these tractors (730 and 830) were ones my father was responsible for when he worked as an experimental engineer at John Deere). The values are from the Yesterday Tractors site ytmag.com
(numbers jibe well with thurlow's)

Dad had a lot of good stories when he went to Lincoln for the Nebraska tests to get those HP numbers. Lots of pressure.

I pulled a lot of wood out with my 420 2-cyl Deere with logging tongs on the 3pt. I like my 4300 better though, as it has hydrastatic and is much easier to operate (nice to have hands free to steer and operate FEL and 3pt, while the foot handles all forward/reverse and brakes).
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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