chain saw chain question

secondofangle · February 05, 2006, 08:52:26 PM

I know this will sound like a stupid question - but Stihl has both "low kickback" chains and "Pro" chains in different varieties - the latter come with option of larger chisel size/configuration, for more aggressive cutting - on the package, it says that they cannot be used with a saw under such and such cc or HP becaues of the risk of kick-back.

So I don't know how much of this is to limit liability, so only the pros with the big saws will buy the non-low-kickback chains, or how much of it is because the smaller saws simply cannot drive the chains with the larger chisel - not enough power.

I have a stihl 029 and 046 - the latter has the aggressive chain and I like how it cuts and want to know if I can put an aggressive chain on the smaller saw too..

Thanks!

sawguy21 · February 05, 2006, 09:30:37 PM

The bars and chains are matched to maximize the saw's powerband. The 33RS chain on your 046 is too agressive for the 029 which probably has the 23RS. The latter is a medium frame saw and a little light to handle the larger bar and chain whereas the smaller setup would never last on the 046 in the pro market it was designed for. If you need a longer bar and faster chain, more power is called for.
You are right, liability is an issue. The 23RS is used extensively on homeowner/farmer/rancher saws and protection from kickback is important. We have to be protected from our own negligence.

leweee · February 06, 2006, 12:29:17 AM

Go with the RS chain on that 029 ;D You will be a happy camper ;D
Wear your PPE when useing it. Leave the RM in the store for the folks that are afraid of Kick Back. :

Keep it razor sharp & PLAY SAFE yu hear. ;D

fishhuntcutwood · February 06, 2006, 01:08:06 AM

The low kickback variety has the same cutters as the respective regular chain, but with the addition of a ramped tie strap before each cutter. It helps the depth gauge and tooth enter the wood more smoothely, and may help reduce kickback, but at the expense of cutting performance. If you know how to use a saw, and avoid kickback to the best of your abilities, the low kickback chain will be a hinderance. If you're a homeowner who uses a saw a couple of times a year, then it may save your skin.

Jeff

ComputerUser · February 06, 2006, 12:40:47 PM

I suspect that the "don't use on saws below XXcc is part of their attempt to be ANSI compliant. ANSI standards demand that saws below 3.8ci/62cc have at least two kickback-preventative features, such as low-kickback chain, low-kickback bars, or those screw-on bar tip covers, to name a few.

As for the ability to use more aggressive chain with your saws, by all means go with it. I was amazed what a difference that using .325 RS chain on my 290 instead of RM2 made; I haven't had the occasion to try the RM non-2 chain for a better, more direct comparision with RM2. Similar performance increases were had in using non-low-kickback chain on my litte saws - Stihl 011AV and Echo 3000. I am not sure if your 029 will like 3/8 RS, but I can assure you that it will prefer a change to .325 RS.

While low-kickback chain has its place, odds are that if you know enough to ask about it you also know enough to use it correctly and safely.

Rocky_J · February 06, 2006, 07:46:22 PM

Wow, I'm amazed at how many people confuse the chain size (gauge) issues with the safety (anti-kickback) issues. One has nothing to do with the other. Smaller chains are for smaller saws, period. Anti-kickback features are sold to help prevent new users and 'self-proclaimed experts' from killing themselves. All sizes of chain are available with and without the anti-kickback features.

wiam · February 06, 2006, 08:27:56 PM

My first 029 had .325 chain on it but my other 3 I put 3/8 on them right out of the shop. But about the anti kick back chain, I hate it.

Will

Kevin · February 06, 2006, 08:40:56 PM

Brian;
I thought they were discussing profile and not gauge.
The bumper tie strap is designed to force the cutter away from the wood at the nose of the bar as the chain rotates around the radius of the nose.

Rocky_J · February 07, 2006, 09:32:07 AM

Here's a page from Stihl showing all of their chains. Each style has a chart showing what sizes in which it's available.
http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html

secondofangle · February 07, 2006, 06:32:00 PM

Thanks for the chart! I think I figured it out. The cutting links identify both chains as 3/8' pitch. The drive links have "3" on them. The chisel on the 029 chain is rounded off, and it has the thingies between the chisel links, so I think it's a 33RM2 chain. this is a low-kickback chain.

The 046 chain also is 3/8 pitch and a #3 drive (.050"), but it has a squared off chisel, so I'm pretty sure it's a 33RS - not a low kickback chain.

I posted photos of my two chains here if anyone can tell which ones they are by looking:

046 chain: --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/v728/phlegmfighter/046chain.jpg
029 chain: --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/v728/phlegmfighter/029chain.jpg

OK, so now I have to ask, what causes the performance of the chain? is it the pitch/guage (the 33 in 33RS and 33RM2) or is it the chisel type (the RM2 and RS) that has to do with cutting performance?

And how can I get the 029 with the 33RM2 to cut more like the 046 with the 33RS?

Thanks again...

beenthere · February 07, 2006, 07:31:05 PM

There appears to be a pretty healthy difference between the two teeth shown for the 029, which may be one reason it isn't as aggressive cutting as the other chain. The profile of the left tooth is more undercut than the profile of the right tooth. The left one appears to not have a sharp edge, and won't cut well. It may just be the angle that the pic is taken, but if you are having cutting problems, it'd be a place to look. Hope that doesn't come across too harsh, and maybe it is something you already have noticed. What is the history of filing the 029 chain? I ask, 'cause I've on occasion over the years had them come back from a chain sharpener looking about the same way. One reason I file my own, then no-one else to blame.

The 046 looks like my 33RS chain, and the 029 for sure looks like the low-kickback chain.

Ianab · February 07, 2006, 09:20:52 PM

Yup - the 029 chain is a reduced kickback one, the extra knobs on the links do that.

It's the profile of the cutter that mostly determines the cutting speed. You should be able to get a standard chisel chain (like your 046 picture) to fit the 029 although the size/pitch may be different depending on your bar and sprocket. The smaller size chains (Stihl call them pico / micro) should cut faster on a small saw all things being equal. Narrower kerf, less sawdut etc.

But the thinner chains aren't strong enough for a big saw / long bar and would break too often.

Looking at the Stihl charts I would put the RM or RSC chain on the 029, you could use RS but they dont seem to make it in that pitch any more?

It still wont cut as well as the 046 of course, but you will get the best it's capable of.

And of course read the big orange warning stickers, but you are running a full chisel already on the other saw so you know that already ;)

Cheers

Ian

secondofangle · February 08, 2006, 09:33:09 PM

thanks, Ianab!

Is there any advantage to changing the chain on the 029 to a .325?

will it be lighter or narrower or anything?

Scott

Ianab · February 08, 2006, 09:51:19 PM

Not enough difference to make it worthwhile as you would have to change the bar and sprocket too.

Changing to a normal chisel chain will be worth doing tho ;)

Ian

tony_marks · February 09, 2006, 07:08:55 PM

id put an .325 sprocket on and of course a.50 gauge narrow kerf bar ..
this 95vp chain is fast, smooth and holds edge well. u ever try it on the 029 and im betting u never change. to each his own . this has been my experience .

WeeksvilleWoodWorx · February 09, 2006, 08:00:45 PM

You might want to move your pictures to your FF gallery, Da Boss hates red Xs.

SawTroll · February 10, 2006, 09:06:56 AM

Quote from: tony_marks on February 09, 2006, 07:08:55 PM
id put an .325 sprocket on and of course a.50 gauge narrow kerf bar ..
this 95vp chain is fast, smooth and holds edge well. u ever try it on the 029 and im betting u never change. to each his own . this has been my experience .

Ditto, that should work nicely! 8)

secondofangle · February 10, 2006, 10:11:13 PM

Quote from: WeeksvilleWoodWorx on February 09, 2006, 08:00:45 PM
You might want to move your pictures to your FF gallery, Da Boss hates red Xs.

who is Da Boss and what are red Xs, and how do I move them?

Thanks, the Newbie

Ianab · February 11, 2006, 12:54:25 AM

Have a read of this thread.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=12416.0

If you host pictures on another site and they eventually get deleted or moved then your thread here gets left with Red X where your picture was. If you upload them to your forum gallery they will stay with your post.
Because old posts aren't deleted things will turn up in searches that a several years old, and it makes more sense if the pictures that go with the thread are still in place.

Cheers

Ian (Da Assistant Boss) ;)