Best welding rod for beginner

[Daren]

Lots of difference between "dobbers" and welders.  ;)

Yep, making sparks isn't welding. But I ain't preaching, making sawdust ain't samilling either. It all just takes PRACTICE and good advice from those who know. That's why we are here  ;).

[pigman]

. Lots of difference between "dobbers" and welders.  ;)

I have never been called a " dobber" , but some of my weld beads do look like pigeon poop. ;)  As I tell everyone, I can weld anything. The problem is most of it will not hold. :(   On rusty farm metal I use 6011 and on clean steel I use 6013.

[isassi]

The term "dobber" popped out due to the number of guys who think they are real welders....heck guys, I have experience with a sawmill, but it doesn't make me a sawyer...to even come close, I need lots more experience. There are truckers, and guys who drive trucks...ect, ect. Here in Oklahoma, the oilfield specifically, welding is a serious art form and practice. To weld on the pipeline, you get your weld sectioned to look at it. Same for drill pipe used in rigs...you should see a 7 inch diameter collar with a 2 inch bore 30 feet long get a weld splice. Takes an hour and 15 pounds of 7018 and 7024 to make the root and fill passes and there are not any pin holes or the weld won't pass x-ray.  Since I have been out of that trade, I think they do an innershield method with robotic turning since good welders are in very short supply. We take welding tests, which members of the FF are familiar with, and pay and employment depend on it. Many years ago I tested at the AWG 5 level. Most pipeline welders would do a 3 or 4. 5 and above at that time were pressure vessule and boiler ratings. I doubt the new welding processes will ever get rid of traditional stick welding, just like computers will never get rid of a journeyman machinist who can truly make a part, I think it is important to learn the basics, no matter where you go with it. When I taught powerplant, lots of people said the recip engines are dead, lets move to the jet age, stop teaching all that crap about magnetos and carburators. My position was and is, you don't build a house without a good foundation, and basic mechanic skills should be learned before getting to advanced technology and not understanding how to apply torque or even how basic fuel metering works. I know welders who can say "6011" or 7018, and have no clue what the numbers mean. When you buy mig wire, do you specify what grade you get? :P

[Daren]

I have had to take an x-ray test to even get on a job many times. They set you up with 2 pieces of pipe in an akward postion, "bell hole" or "Arkansas bell hole" so you have to weld 360 degrees around the pipe, top, bottom and sides without moving it. It better look as good on the bottom as it does the top 'cause if they aren't needing welders bad, they can be picky. The weld may pass the x-ray test, but they can send you down the road by "looking you out". Which means the inspector can say "I don't like the way it looks" (or in some cases doesn't like the way you look). I was lucky I worked for one contractor from the day I started till the day I quit. I just had to test for certain jobs they had at Nukes or pipelines for the engineers or regulatory reasons. But I remember other guys stories of driving 1000 miles hoping to get on a big overtime job and getting sent home by the inspector.

[isassi]

I bet Darin, we have had the same experience. Its true with most occupations. Good welders are not looking for jobs, good carpenters are not looking, niether are machinists or most skilled trades. Of course, there are exceptions, but truly skilled craft people always seem to have a good job. Around here, the line is if they can start tomorrow, you don't want them. Lots of employers trying to hire guys away from competition because they are making machinists anymore...ect... ;)

[Daren]

One of my favorite tricks is "mirror welding". When you have to make a weld in such a tight space, like up against a beam or wall, you can't get your head around the back side. You get a mirror and hold it in one hand and weld with the other watching in the mirror what you are doing, that will mess with your head. The only thing worse, and I have done it a bunch, is if you are out making a pipe repair and you don't have a mirror. You have to take the rear view out ot the company truck and use it (every truck I every drove the rear view had weld spatter all over it). What makes that so fun is a rear view has that day/night thing, if you look into it there are 2 images. That is a trip hanging upside down welding and trying to figure which arc to watch, good thing that part of the weld IS on the backside  :, somethimes it wasn't as pretty.

[Larry]

Don't ask. :D

Welding experience is "senior dobber".  Got an AC buzz box along with acetylene torches.  Any suggestions on what rod to use?  Thinking about putting a sleeve over the repair...ya know how us dobbers are.

[Sprucegum]

Larry

If you want to revive a lost art  get some gas-welding filler rod (Hercules?) and use your oxy-acetalene to repair that break. It will be just as strong as 7018 if you do it right   8)  :P  ;D

[jpgreen]

oxy-acetalene-

That's what I've gotta learn.

My Father-in-law employs about 10 welders in his truck hoist fabrication company, in Sacarmento and cannot find decent welders anymore.  I said "Decent", not even skilled craftsman. His brother runs a hydraulic ram manufacturing business that was left to them both by their father, and it's full of lathe's and machines, and they can't find a decent machinist hardly anymore. 

Where are the skilled high school shop teachers?...  Retired and few and far between. THis is today's America I guess.

Well- it's OK.  We always have Harbor Freight..  :

[mike_van]

JP, sadly, most of the machinests, tool & die makers etc. have been "outsourced" -  Across Connecticut are hundreds of machine shops now closed,  vacant - weeds in the parking lots -  The jobs gone overseas where labor is cheaper. 

[jpgreen]

I don't get it Mike.  Where is all this going to shake out?  I'm a big Bush (W) supporter, but here he doesn't want us dependent on foriegn oil, but wants us totally dependent on foriegn labor and products (?)

Wants to support buiness with Mexico, China, etc., etc., but tell's GM "Oh well", you have to just take your lumps?  :

I miss Ronnie.  Sorry to highjack this thread.

[isassi]

Ok, so where did the skilled trades go???? Well, in Oklahoma, we had the finest technical training anywhere, and other states modeled their voactional training on our system for awhile...then the egg heads decided  we were teaching "lost" skills...totally un-needed in our new world of computers. Lets get with the jet age and leave behind the "old technology, embrace the new". When I was in highschool, I signed up for vo-tech machine shop. I graduated, just as the NC and CNC were coming on strong, as a journeyman manual machinist. With a few years experience, i was competant, and this was on that "old technology". The egg heads fired my traditional instructor, and taught computer programming for the machinists of the future, and look what we have now? Guys who can't chase a thread, sharpen a drill bit, or make a new part by measuring the old one. And God forbid, if the machinery breaks, they lack the basic mechanic skills to repair it or troubleshoot a problem if it doesn't come from a keyboard and monitor. Later in life, I was teaching Aviation Maintenance Technology, and the egg heads said "we don't need guys who can understand what makes it work, we need highly trained technicians who can work on space age vehicles". Now we have A&P's who can't time a magneto, rig flight controls, or have any troubleshooting skills on aircraft, but they know all about composite layups and the latest laptops that have replaced the service manuals of the past. As Darin pointed out with his welding background, and mine own experience, guys who can lay in the mud under a drilling rig and patch a conductor pipe, or weld pipe together that has line pressures of several thousand PSI are not looking for work. It was tough 20 years ago to hire a machinist that you could draw a sketch on a piece of paper of something you wanted built, and then get it done. It is one aspect of our advancing world that will leave us high and dry. One funny thing to close with: There is a guy here in town, auto mechanic, that had an old truck come in and the ignition was dead. Wow, presto, no electronic brain box, no on board computer...lo and behold, he pulled the distrributor cap off and saw something he had never seen before, and had no idea what they were (really guys, true story), so he had to ask the owner of the truck. Says a lot for our technical training. The school he attended didn't teach that old stuff, so he had never seen point style ignition and had no idea what made an ignition system work. Now my question: Suppose he knows how electronics work? How could he understand the hall effect switching if he didn't know the basics???? ???

[jpgreen]

Sad story Joasis.

I sat in a coffee shop one morning down south and an older ford tractor truck with a trailer load of steel broke down in the middle of the road.

Watching 2 guys fiddle around holding up traffic while eating my breakfast, I went out and asked if I could help, and they we're clueless. I jumped up and pulled the ditributer cap- found all the contacts corroded.

Wipped out the file on my Gerber, cleaned em' up and she fired right off. These guys had no idea what I did, and were just dumbfounded.

Tried to get a deal on some heavy angle stock from the owner after saving him big bucks on a tow, and he didn't think it was worth it.  Another idiot!..   :

[Daren]

I think Joasis and I could swap stories here about skilled trades. Like I stated I was a third generation pipe welder, I got out of that 5 years ago to start my own business. I have welded on so many tractors, trailers... I have lost a little of my hand for pipe welding. I have made alot of handrail, I subbed through a concrete contractor who was doing TONS of handicap ramps. My Dad is getting ready to retire in April, none to soon. In the few years I did it I even saw the trade change, it was getting more profit driven (who can weld fast, not who could weld good). Guys like my Dad, and Grandad took pride in their work and it showed. I was never a GREAT welder, I stayed employed because I had a master plumbers license, could pass any welding test, and was willing to be foreman on big jobs. I had GREAT welders work for me, but they were my Dads age, they are all leaving the trade. Unfortunatly guys like him are a dying breed. He made EVERY weld his best one, that is not what the contractor want anymore, they want "inches", how much you can do in a day. Kinda bums me out.

[simonmeridew]

Larry:
From one dobber to another, I'd use an eighth inch 6011 rod at either 90 or 105 amps, take my time so as not to heat the rest of it too much, chip and peen between passes and maybe finish up with a 6013 at 135 amps.
I like the idea of gas welding though limited experience can't recommend.
Good project and it'll turn out 100%.
simonmeridew

[etat]

Don't ask. :D

Welding experience is "senior dobber".  Got an AC buzz box along with acetylene torches.  Any suggestions on what rod to use?  Thinking about putting a sleeve over the repair...ya know how us dobbers are.

Larry.  One thing for sure is if you weld that you want a one hundred percent penetration weld.  I'd grind it down enough to a point where I make the repair and stick it good.  Then I'd chip off the weld and grind it almost off making sure there were no pits or slags in the weld.  I'd go slow and chip and grind the weld after EVERY pass.  It will take a while but eventually you will get it built up. 

Next comes the 'most important part'.  You have to reheat the whole thing to red hot and then pack it in something like oil dry to let it cool slowly to equalize the metal.  Otherwise it is prone to break again near the weld whether you want it to or not.  This is called annealing (or equalizing the metal).  Then the piece could be reheated again and re tempered.  I do not know the proper procedure for re tempering something like that and I would recommend you visit a blacksmith forum and ask someone who does.