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Is red pine useful for anything.

Started by jeryst, January 30, 2006, 12:37:03 AM

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jeryst

Recently, I hired a forrester to sell my hardwood timber. Also on my land (Western PA), is a large quantity of what he identified as red pine. He said that they are not good for anything, and wants  to sell them as pulp wood. They are probably 40+ feet tall, and range in size from 6" to 14", with most of them being in the 8-10" range. Looking on the internet, I have seen red pine building logs, red pine flooring, etc., and I cannot believe that these trees are not good for anything other than pulp.  Could someone please set one of us straight? If they are good for something, can someone tell me where I can market them? I would really appreciate someones help. Thanks in advance.

Ianab

Well red pine is usefull, but the problem is small logs  :(

Saw logs are measured at the small end, so although a tree may be 10" at the base, or at breast height, the log will be measured 12 ft or so up the tree. Probably only 6" there. Also small pines will only produce low grade (knotty) timber. Could they be sawn into something, sure, is it economical, probably not.

Selling them for pulp may just be the best option

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Mike_Barcaskey

what Ianab said.
the small end dia would need to be at least 12 inches and 1/2 the load would need to be 16 inches or better for me to be interested.
where are you located?

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Two three comments, based upon the very good previous answers:
:)
These days timber harvesting has become strictly big business, so
first off the bat, selective cutting is less and less common.    In the old
days, someone would have been willing to take the useful size Red Pine
out and leave the rest to mature.

In fifteen years you might have a good quantity of sizable Red P., but
that increase in size would be faster and more predictable, if the larger
ones could be removed selectively.  (But the forester will tell you that it
is not financially practical and the loggers won't even be interested.)

Even if you have plenty of logs the right size for the cabin log producers,
you also have to have enough sizable logs and be close enough to that
producer to make the hauling worth while. 

No one says you can't get a  draft horse, chainsaw, and even a mill,
and  GO SELECTIVE 8)!

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

moosehunter

 What Phil said!

Red pines are what got me interested in cutting and milling my own trees. I am too far from a pulp mill, I couldn't GIVE these red pines away. So I bought a mill, a small tractor ( and various other wood cutting/moving equipment) and am having a blast cutting my own lumber from red pines and anything else that gets in my way 8)
mh
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days".    Ray Wylie Hubbard

rebocardo

> He said that they are not good for anything, and wants  to sell them as pulp wood.
> They are probably 40+ feet tall, and range in size from 6" to 14", with most of them
> being in the 8-10" range.

Probably not commercially on a large scale, for a pine tree, that is a pretty small tree for height and diameter. Though with selective culling they might be good for something, leaving the best ones for 15-20 years. I think the p.t. 2x4s from southernwoods at Home Depot started off as a 6" tree....




Jeff

I wish I was sitting on a grove of red pine already that size. In my life time they will be plenty big enough for all sorts of projects. This little shed is about 90% redpine framing and 100% redpine siding. The biggest tree was 15" DBH and most of them ran about 12. Here is a picture of Tammy hooking up a chain to one of the trees we skidded out with a pickup.





This is the trhead where this project was documented.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=14094.0





Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SwampDonkey

They use Jack pine with 10-12" DBH  for sawlogs, has to be 6" top at 12'6" feet, of course the tree can be up to 28 inches on the butt. $445/mbfm. Use 6-8" DBH, 8-10 foot for studwood $280-330/mbfm. With jack pine you have to grow it tight, to grow it straight and that slows growth in diameter. So you need an intermediate thinning to release the stand. In the last 2 years I worked near some jack pine stands that were planted the same time as spruce and the pine was too big to thin under precommercial criteria. I don't know of any jack pine planted long enough for an intermediate thinning yet though, probably will be at least 10 more years. Personally, I don't care for the stuff. I know of some 40 year old red pine plantations that have been thinned for pulp, the crop trees left are for poles or saw timber. It will be at least 20 years, maybe closer to 30 up here to get more clear wood. Trouble is most of our red pine was planted within the last 20 years, a long wait yet. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Riles

"Selective" cutting has become synonomous with high grading. Be careful what you cut. In uneven age management, selective cutting means taking out one of the year groups from the stand, not the best trees in the stand. Ideally you should maintain a minimum of three year groups in the stand.

A Timber Stand Improvement (TSI) cut is a little different. Within whatever management plan you're using, you're clearing out the undesireable trees to improve the ones you leave behind. Again, you're not cutting out the best trees.

None of this means you can't or shouldn't harvest trees you have a use for, just don't gut the woods without thinking about regeneration and the future.
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

wiam

I have been told that red pine that is very thick will double on five years when thinned properly.  That is in northern VT

Will

jeryst

Thank you   for the replies. From what I've been told, these trees were planted around 50 years ago, when the area was stripped.  I think the big problem is that they were  planted so close together (less than 10 feet apart" that they probably havent grown as big as they should have. Although I only plan on removing enough to clear an area for a house, it's still a large number of trees. They look like they would make great telephone poles or ship masts. Too bad there aren't any more clipper fleets. I ran across a site on the net that said that buyers in China were looking for small diameter red pine logs, but I thought it might just be some type of scam. Anyone know anything about that?

Ianab

QuoteI think the big problem is that they were  planted so close together (less than 10 feet apart" that they probably havent grown as big as they should have.


The 10 ft planting would be normal for a pine plantation, the close spacing forces the trees to grow taller earlier and supresses the lower branches. But they needed to be thinnned after 10-20 years to just leave the best 25%
Previous owner probably lost interest in the project, passed away, sold the land etc before that management could be done  :(

Forester can advise you if it's worth thinning now, but chances are it's not a good option. Damage to the remaining trees will be high, and even the good ones are somewhat suppressed and may not grow well anyway. Harvesting the whole lot, getting some $$ for the logs to pay for the replanting is probably the best choice.

There may be markets out there for the logs, here they would be treated and used for fence posts and poles for landscaping and shed building. But unless the markets are local the freight costs will be more than the return. No point spending $100 ton on freight for $50 ton logs.

Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

trouter

jertst
check your PM maybe we can help you out.

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