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Planting seedlings in clay ???

Started by whitepine, January 26, 2006, 07:59:30 PM

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whitepine

Winter so I am reading  a book on gardening and the author brings up a good point says if you  dig a hole in clay and plant  the roots will not get air and drown as the clay holds the water. Well my ranch is all clay hard as a rock and I  will be planting again this spring mainly spruce but a big variety any suggestions on how to deal with this  problem?

SwampDonkey

My experience with planting spruce in clay, or on soil that his supersaturated at times of the growing season, is disasterous. Low survival and the ones that survive are at risk to wind throw as they mature. I don't know how you'd remedy it economically. Is your soil mostly fine material (silt clay) and not stoney? Maybe you could make sizeable mounds or wind rows so the tree root system is elevated. You want a good mix of humous in the soil though. If your in a cold climate, clay can cause severe frost heaving. I've been on sites that look like the trees where just thrown on the ground. Popped right up out of the mineral soil.  ::) Contact your local Forestry agency for help.

Best of luck
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Scott

Ditto! to what Swamp said. Not the best soil for seedling planting depending upon clay depth, hard pan layer. climate, etc. Get a soil analysis done first for best determination on the profile of your clay soil and if you have a loamy clay, clay loam, solid clay, or whatever.
~Ron

Riles

"Clay hard as a rock" isn't holding much water. Not all clays retain water for that matter (smectite yes, kaolinite no). The advantage to clays is they hold nutrients well.

A soil survey (available online more and more often now) will tell you what your soil is and what the best tree for that soil is.

There's some research going on now with bedding loblolly on wetter than normal sites. They seem to do really well and that's without adding organic matter. And the beds are small, maybe 4 feet wide and 6 inches high.
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

whitepine

This is  pure clay and they are planting white spruce up here have been since the depression with success. In areas with sandy loam they plant red pine and feed the deer white pine seedlings. Spruce must have ability to handle  water better than most trees the black spruce is planted in the swamp usually on sphagnum moss. I have also heard of frost heaving seedlings I think the plan the  state and feds use up here is plant alot and hope some make it. If this weather holds I will be asking about planting banana trees we are almost 20 degrees above normal this January. Thanks Tom

Pullinchips

After having a very short stent in the government, don't follow every thing that they do.  They do lots of things that is way to costly for the average landoner cant't do simply because it won't pay off.

-Nate
Resident Forester
US Army Corps of Engineers: Savannah District

Clemson Forestry Grad 2004
MFR Clemson University 2006
Stihl MS 390

whitepine

Yes I agree about the government I am doing this for my enjoyment with no respect to cost effectiveness as I will never live to see these trees mature my only restraint is my own budget. Some people fish, chase women, gamble, drink, hunt I do all of those a little  but my favorite is the woods.

Pullinchips

Fair enough,

Sorry i can't help though.  I'm not from around there and have no knowledge of your soil type and maily your tree species.  I can help you though if you want to plant loblolly in good ole SC red clay.

-Nate
Resident Forester
US Army Corps of Engineers: Savannah District

Clemson Forestry Grad 2004
MFR Clemson University 2006
Stihl MS 390

SwampDonkey

What I was trying the relay to ya is if you plant in mineral soil without a humous layer the 'whore frost' can be 6 or 8 inches thick. Take a look at Sprucebunney's pictures of frost last fall. It was bad this year because we never had any snow and I noticed some bare soil patches with 8 year old seedlings on them with the roots exposed and the tree leaning at 45 degrees. Now, I have my doughts that those trees will ever amount to anything economical. But, I agree with ya whitepine on the work and the love of doing something on your ground even if someone tells ya it won't work. Beenthere done that lot's of times. :D ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

customsawyer

I don't have any knowledge about your neck of the woods but down here in the south when there is hard clay, or a hard pan on a trac of land I will go in and subsoil it before planting. I usually do this in the summer or late fall so that the rain can settle the dirt back into the bottom of the subsoil furrow as the treeplanter will not be able to pack the air pockets out at that depth. Don't know it this will work on your trac but if you are going to try it make sure that you have a coulter blade in front of your subsoiler shank so that it will cut the grass and other roots or they will just ball up on the shank and leave a big groove that you won't ever get closed up. Hope this helps.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

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