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Starting a one man mill business

Started by DougM, October 18, 2002, 08:36:39 AM

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DougM

I need some help ???

I am thinking about starting a one man mill business and want to do go into this with my
eyes wide open. I believe there is a market in my area for good quality lumber but I need
to be sure, how do I do that? I need a market analysis of both source for timbers and
customers for my lumber, any suggestions?

I am having a difficult time finding my competition, where do I find a list of all the mills in
my area (portable and fixed location)?

Is there anyone in my area (south central Michigan, northwestern Ohio, or northeastern
Indiana) that would be willing to let me spend some time with them to pick your brain and
get some sawdust in my nose? I can offer a strong back and a willingness to learn in
return.

What equipment would you say I would need to get started? How about a kiln or is that
down the line?

Are there any kilns in my area? I may need one for some reclaimed timbers that I have.

I hope I am not crazy and that you can help. This idea scares me to death and excites the
hell out of me. I want to make this decision with my head and not my heart.

Doug :-/ :-/ :) :)

dewwood

Doug,

Welcome to the forum!

I am located east of Angola, IN almost to the Ohio line.  I recently purchased a mill and I have a kiln which I dry most of my lumber in.  I also have a retail outlet here.  If you would be interested in stopping by I would be happy to show you what we do here.  I certainly don't have all of your answers but I might be able to help with some of your questions.

Email or call  800-350-3342

Dewey Powers

Selling hardwood lumber, doing some sawing and drying, growing the next generation of trees and enjoying the kids and grandkids.

Bibbyman

Welcome DougM.

You can find your competition by checking with the state forestry service in your area.  They likely have a listing of mills and source of all kinds of information.  The local forestry agent probably would be a good contact .  

For Wood-Mizer mills, you could call Wood-Mizer at 1-800-553-0182 and ask for mills in your area.  I think they ask you zip code and give you mills in and around you.  Not all Wood-Mizer mill owners will be listed so you'd likely miss some.  

If you have not bought a mill and are considering a Wood-Mizer,  you can call Wood-Mizer and talk with them and they will likely give you a couple of names of mill owners in your area (or within reasonably driving distance) that are doing what you are thinking about doing.  Wood-Mizer also has edgers, kiln, molders, etc.  

Wood-Mizer is having an open house November 9 in Indy.  It'd sure be a great time to see all their equipment and hob knob with a lot of other mill owners.

I like to think we small mill operations as more of a cooperative than in competition.   If you approach other mill owners in that light,  you'll find them very helpful.  They'll likely send you work.

Best of luck.  You'll do fine.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Jeff

Welcome to the Forestry forum Doug. We need more Michigan guys, I'm starting to get our numbered. :D

Here is a great link that will help you find out whats going on in your area. Jack Pilon and Anthony Weatherspoon of the MIDNR who are both members of this forum have compiled a pretty all encompassing database of forest product companies. It starts with the big boy paper mills and gos right down to local woodworkers. Anybody in Michigan using wood. You can search by area or product or what ever.

http://www.michigandnr.com/wood/

I would also like to invite you to come up and visit our mill in Harrison Michigan and spend some time in the saw cab. Its not a one man deal, but a large commercial mill. We can talk wood and you can get a taste of sawdust. ;D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

There are a few questions you ought to ask yourself before you get too far along on buying equipment.  Do you want to custom saw for other people?  Portable or stationary mill?

If not custom sawing, what markets are you going after?  Some markets require kiln dried, some don't.

Where are you getting your logs?  Dependable source?  How's the quality and quantity?  Cost?  I've seen lots of start ups fail due to log supply.

I always like when someone is trying to fill a market niche that has room to expand.  At one time, you couldn't give pine away in my area.  Now we have several guys making log houses.

Some guys will dismantle barns and make flooring.  That can be a really good market.  I know one guy who has gone into making doors.  He doesn't saw much  in a month, but makes enough to support 2 families.

State agencies have a list of everything you need, as far as contacts and competition.   Start with the forestry division and ask for sawmills, kilns, loggers, etc.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Bro. Noble

Doug,

Welcome

As far as the equipment you need,  that will depend on your source of logs and the products you end up producing and if you are stationary or mobile.  Look through the different threads on the forum and you will get a lot of ideas from the stuff that fellow forum members have.

We sell Grade lumber, ties, and pallet stock to brokers.  Sometime we cut pine for individuals.

We started with a Woodmizer LT40 and a Tractor with a front end loader and filled orders for individuals.  It wasn't convenient for us to try dealing with the public so we went to brokers.  As the business returned a profit we added the following machinery in this order.  Corley 3 saw edger,  cut-off saw,  Go-Fast resaw,  Morgan Scragg mill,  Woodmizer LT40HD,  Cat. 910 wheel loader.
Got my hopes up for a feller buncher and a LT70 somewhere down the road.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

DougM

 8) Great help so far keep it coming.:)

Any special needs for processing antique lumber from barns? I now about the metal and kiln drying will kill the bugs, any other special needs? I have about 5000bf of lumber that I would like to process. Have had trouble moving as is but I think it will sell if I can mill it
8)

woodman

If you will come to Mass. there are people like me who would love free help for a year or two.   :) :) ;D
Jim Cripanuk

Tom

Welcome to the forum, Doug. Check out this link: The Tree Monster

WoodChucker

Hey Jeff B, I was just over in your neck of the woods a couple of weeks ago, my Mother who is 84 and has Alzheimer's ended up in a Bar over there in Harrison, I don't remember the name of the Bar but it was right at the end of M-72 where it comes into your town. Really nice people, they took good care of my Mom until I got there, guess she was there for almost 6 hours before she told anyone she was lost, and she doesn't drink, she eats like a bird, so I'm sure she wasn't one of there favorite types of customers, lol.

Anyway, I'm from Curran over in (Alcona County) just letting you know who your neighbors are, and don't say " there goes the neighborhood" either! lol

If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Jeff

Woodchucker I appreciate the comment on the Harrison folk. Please bear with me here now... :D

Are you sure that was Harrison? M-72 does not come in to Harrison. It goes into Grayling. So either you got the wrong town or.... The wrong Mom!  Either way your both welcome to get lost in Harrison. I'm in the book just Holler, I'll come find you and we will go to the Bar at the end of M-61 and have a pizza. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

Doug

Is your antique lumber in boards or beams?  If in beams, you might be able to move if sawn into lumber.  Species will also have a factor.  Hemlock won't move as well as white pine.

I know of one guy who dismantles barns, then turns them into flooring.  It's used in upscale houses, so there is quite a good deal in markup.  

You might want to try a small dab on eBay.  I would be interested in seeing what someone would pay for about 25 feet of that stuff.  You might be surprised.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

ARKANSAWYER

Doug M
  Welcome to FF.  You are still welcome to come to Arkansas.
  Bibbyman,  If we are so cooperative  How come I have to stay south of I 44?
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

DougM

Thanks everyone, 8)

This forum is great. I have spent most of the past two days looking at everything. Noble, good heads up.

Two invites to see a mill in operation. Monday I will be in Indiana spending some time with Dewey Powers.

Ron,

I have mostly timbers, 50 to 100 years old, roughly 8"x8" and up to 16', beech, elm, maple, some oak, and a couple pieces of cherry. Some has lots of nails that are a bugger to get out, break when you grab hold of them. Anyone got a blade they wouldn't mind running through this stuff?  :D I know there is a market for this stuff, just not in the form it is now.

Not finding many mills in my area. DNR site showed a couple and Woodmizer listed 2 or 3. Don't know what to make of this. Good sign, little competition or bad sign, no market. I have found a number or potential suppliers and buyers within 30 miles. Next step is to start knocking on doors.

Once again thanks for the help and making this fun. I don't do anything I can't have fun at! 8)

Doug

Jeff

Sure seems to me that 50 to 100 year old timbers would saw into lumber thats plenty stable enough for flooring. Do ya'll think it would even need to be dried further?

Doug, it is a great forum aint it? I see what kind of help you was getting somewhere else. I'm right proud ya came here. Michigan is where this forum was hatched ;D

All these guys seem just like grandpas to me. ;D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

WoodChucker

QuoteWoodchucker I appreciate the comment on the Harrison folk. Please bear with me here now... :D

Are you sure that was Harrison? M-72 does not come in to Harrison. It goes into Grayling. So either you got the wrong town or.... The wrong Mom!  Either way your both welcome to get lost in Harrison. I'm in the book just Holler, I'll come find you and we will go to the Bar at the end of M-61 and have a pizza. :)

Well I guess it runs in the family and I'll be able to hide my own Easter eggs this year, lol.

It was a typo, I live on M-72 (duh), it was at the end of M-61 where I had to go, makes you wonder how on earth I ever found her,hey? lol

And thanks for the offer, if I'm ever lost again, lol, I'll take you up on it. :)

BTW, do you know why we have female Astronauts now?

Answer: So someone can stop and ask for direction.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Bro. Noble

Doug,

I did a little sawing for a guy who deals in antique beams.  His e-mail is keller@webound.com.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

C_Miller

The Greenlee tool people used to sell a gismach that was used to take the nails out of pallets. it worked liked a dent puller and pinch pliers. I used one to pull nails out of lumber even the headless ones. slicker than the proverbial mucous.
CJM

woodbeard

Doug, I might be interested in some pieces of beech, maple and maybe elm. please e-mail me: orgmorg@yahoo.com
Thanks,
George

Don P

Before writing off the timbers as unmarketable in their present form search out local timberframers. There is a market for dry, stable, recycled timbers. They often sell frames from recycled timbers for more than a green one...with good reason.

smwwoody

If you saw them try Twolf's cobolt bands they have worked well for me in old timbers with nails in them.
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
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woodmills1

I had a customer show up a few years ago with 20 or so chestnut beams he had spent a small fortune on.  they looked kinda punky to me, but he still wanted them sawn.  well they mostly turned to dust as I cut through them, but he paid for the work and for the time to scan them and for two blades.  He seemed real happy for the 10 good boards.  Go figure!
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

DanG

There is a guy, working right up the road from me, re-sawing heart pine beams from an old tobacco barn into flooring. I'm not sure of his business arrangement with the owner, but he says the flooring is selling really well. He is using a WM Lt-40.

I'm forever grateful to this particular guy, BTW, because he was my main inspiration to get my own mill. He had agreed to saw up some pines that I had taken down.  They went to rot, waiting for him to show up.  I saw his truck at a local bar, quite a bit, during that time frame. Now he is whining because his wife has given him the boot, and he might have to sell out. Seems to me that he could better pay his bills if he would just do some work. ::)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Fla._Deadheader

That's exactly what I plan on doing, buying timbers and re-sawing them into flooring. That way, come colder water, I don't hafta need a heater under my wetsuit. :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Paul_H

Noble,
you mentioned a Go-fast resaw,is it a good unit?Is it used often?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

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