iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

My first potential lumber sale...questions.

Started by GregS, January 24, 2006, 09:00:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

GregS

Being a rather new sawyer I have under 1000bf of mixed speices made into lumber and it's stickered in the yard.  My big inventory 8).

I am sharing my sawing experiences with the guys at the office and have sold maybe 30bf of cherry to them.  I sold these first experiment cuts for $1.25/bf green to them.  The guys love the price and are willing to wait the time to air dry the stuff so they can use it.  One guy is planning some furniture for next year and wants to get 160bf of cherry green from me because the price is right.  Here is where I am having the problem.  I just hate to part with it for that price.  I know I asked for it...  but what to do. 

A couple of questions:
1)  It seems like selling green lumber makes my time almost worthless.  If I air dry the cherry down to 25% MC is it worth double or maybe more?

2)  Do many of you not sell green lumber for this reason?

3)  Is the desire to hold on to your lumber as if its your first born common?  I feel a connection to it  ;D. 

Thanks for reading,
Greg S.

Mike_Barcaskey

Number 3   -   YES, every board I cut

When I sell it green or any of the boards that are stacked and stickered in the barn, no matter how long, its the same price (I don't sell a lot, under 3,000 bf last year)
to me its the same amount of my labor either way if I stack it
Sometimes I'll pay to have a buddy kiln dry it and then sell it

and remember, the price you quoted last month may not be the same as the price today (unless you had an agreement)
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

GregS

Mike,  I am glad to hear I am not crazy regarding number 3.

Thanks for your input and nice point regarding the price quote.

Greg S

Ron Wenrich

Seems that your price might be a tad bit low, depending on grade.  4/4 cherry is about $2.40/bf for uppers, green in trailerload lots. 

I work in a much larger operation, so we don't keep logs or lumber around for much longer than a couple of weeks.  It keeps the money flowing, there is less chance for degrade, and there is less handling.

But, you have a much smaller operation.  You can go for the small buyer, which I don't go after.  The small buyer should pay more for the lumber than my wholesale broker does.  But, for the premium, they should get well manufactured lumber. 

The problem with selling green lumber is that who you sell it to might not be able to dry it correctly.  That wiil give your customer a bad result.  That isn't the results that you want.

Go the extra step and dry it, unless cash flow or holding space is a problem.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

GHRoberts

GregS ---

You don't say what grade or size your wood is. Hard to say what a fair price is.

I am just a "large" hobby buyer. About 400bdft (1-2 logs) at a time. A couple times a year.

I pay a pemium for whole logs sawn into flitches the thickness I want and dried. I expect almost clear lumber with the pith contained in the center flitch. About $7/bdft for 20" cherry logs.

GregS

Ron,  I appreciate your input.  This sounds more in line considering the local kiln dried price is $4.50bf so I would think green would be about half that.  The confusing part is when I called a local mill that has a retail outlet and asked about green price for cherry she sounded a little surprised by my question but said $1.25bf.  I don't really know if they would sell it green though.

I have been investing in sawmill related equipment for so long I do have a cash flow problem and it has been in one direction...OUT  :-[.  So cash in would be nice.

GH,  the cherry order was pretty well defined and he asked for clear high grade pieces.  I need to veryify but select on a single face is what he is after.  I have recently sawed up a very high quality 23", 8' long log and some of the order would come from that log considering he had a couple 8/4x8"x8's.  I have already isolated the pith in the center flitch.  $7/bf for a custom job from log to kiln drid S4S lumber seems on the high side for our area but certainly within reason considering the special handling requirements. 

I am glad I asked the question before I gave him a time table and quote.  I am getting a better idea of how to approch this now.  For a custom order and high grade I will adjust my quote.

Thanks gentlemen!

rebocardo

2)  Do many of you not sell green lumber for this reason?

I usually do oak and pine and I rather sell green then trying to store and dry it. Especially pine since it gets that blue stain. If you have a place to store and dry it, then go for it and double your money.

>  Is the desire to hold on to your lumber as if its your first born common?  I feel a connection to it

I feel a better connection to Ben Franklin :-D

Though I did save my very first wood cut to make a couch/bench for my kids.

One word of advice, always deal cash.

 

oakiemac

A $1.25 is too low for upper grade Cherry green lumber. I sometimes sell green cherry log run which includes all grades for $1.60.

If you can, I would dry the lumber and add much more to the value. You not only are going to have many more customers you can also charge much more. You should select out the upper grade lumber and kiln dry that. Also remember if you are selling to wood workers you will have to select out the boards with a lot of sap wood. Sap wood is not considered a defect by NHLA but I can tell you now that sappy cherry and walnut will not sell.

Here is a list of what you are gonna need.
-A large barn to store lumber
-Many stickers to air dry with then kiln dry
-forklift or loader to move logs/lumber
-kiln
-lots of space to air dry lumber and store logs
-building for the mill
-log trailer
-patient wife
-lots of start up money

You seem to be in the same postion that I was about 3 years ago and all the above I have had to get. Good luck
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

dewwood

oakiemac,

I was wondering just where one goes to get a "patient wife"?  Couldn't help myself on that one.
Selling hardwood lumber, doing some sawing and drying, growing the next generation of trees and enjoying the kids and grandkids.

wiam

My wife is very patient, she has lived with me for 16 years. :) :)

Will

Warren

GregS,

I'm selling green or Air Dry cherry, log run, for $1.50 / bf  in north central Kentucky.  As Ron said, if you sell green, make sure the buyer understands that it needs to dry, and how to dry it.

Warren
LT40SHD42, Case 1845C,  Baker Edger ...  And still not near enough time in the day ...

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Hey Dewwood,

One of my brothers thinks he can get that sort of wife in the Ukraine.
He is scheduled to go there in March to check out several young candidates-
all of whom are about 20 years younger than he is.
;D
That internet is something!  Thank you Al Gore! ::)

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

woodmills1

I have a patient wife, I even get to air dry lumber in the living room. :D :D

I would sell log run hardwood for $1.25 all day long if I didnt pay much for it.  If you take out the best for $1.25 you might start thinking about what is going to happen to the rest.  Are you going to spend the time to make it into clear shorts and narrow boards so someone will buy it or will it just be hanging around for years?
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

oakiemac

A patient wife is a rare treasure very hard to find indeed.

My advice if you can't find one is to forget about women altogether, buy 100acre woodlot and an old beat up trailer to live with a good dog. You'll be happy the rest of your life. :D

Note: in case Hana ever reads this-JUST KIDDING!! :D :D
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

GregS

You guys are too funny.  Lucky me I seem to have the patient wife.  As for the other items I am working on them.

Oakiemac,
- Barn: I am building it now.  Foundation is in, lumber is ready progress is slow.
- Stickers:  I am finding out I will never have enough.
- Forklift:  Skidsteer and tractor with forks.
- Kiln:  I hate to say but this will have to wait.
- Yard space:  I just bought 14 acres in the county hope this is enough.
- Log trailer:  My latest project is this!  Everyone likes pic's so I have included one.
- Patient wife: most of the time I have this <grin>.
- Money:  If I had lots of this it would take the fun out of the struggle but don't get me wrong a little less struggle would be fun too.

Warren,  Thanks for the tip, we have discussed drying in detail. 

All,  I have adjusted my price with this guy and I am awaiting a reply.  I am sticking to the $1.25/bf for lower grades but the FAS stuff I am holding onto or he can purchase for $2.00/bf.  We will see.





Brad_S.

Greg.
Very Cool! How are you getting hydraulic power?
Luckly for you, you won't need me to go fetch RR ties anymore. ;)
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

GregS

Thanks Brad.  I built a log splitter a while back that has a 12hp-B&S with a 22GPM pump on it.  I am going to make this a portable power pack for both pending how the 2 stage pump works under these conditions.  I deserve the RR-tie comment <grin>.  I am ordering a new 5 spool valve assembly for the loader today and I have at least 2 cylinders to repair before the thing stops spewing hydro-fluid.  I have outriggers in the shop almost complete.  I am looking forward to my first log lift with it.

Greg

oakiemac

Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

GregS

Thanks Oakiemac but it doen't work yet.  Soon I hope.

customsawyer

What lumber I sell is almost always green. I don't have any furniture type customers mine are mostly building barns or flooring trailers so the only time I charge extra is if the customer wants me to stack with stickers than I charge $75.00 per 1000bf for stacking but most of my customers will park a trailer at the mill that I load as I cut save me from having to move it very much.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

jpgreen

How heavy a log do you figure you'll get on that trailer GregS?

Sure is nice lookin' rig..  :)
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

GregS

JP,  All I can say it the loader is pretty well built and the trailer has 8k-lb axles.  I have removed lots of weight by using the trailer as the outrigging and plan on removing the white oak 6/4 decking to save another 1000lbs.  I am hoping to get the trailer with loader to under 5k-lbs leaving 11k for logs.  Of course here in NY I need to keep the whole package under 26k-lbs.  In other words we will see.  I think the loader is an old Gafner from pictures I have seen on the net but I don't really know.  I bought the loader from Reid Crosby and he didn't know either.

GS

Ironwood

GregS,

  Now that IS a "Log Trailer" like like one ought to be built. Very nice. The loader looks good. Again I wouldn't be afraid to lenthen the arm once you know what she'll lift. What size are the tires? they look like 12-16.5. Like on some of the army trailers.

  I am in the middle of purchasing a 40' fifth wheel trailer with dual tandems. I will chop it to 30' or maybe 28' and put my crane in the middle. I will also do away with the fifth and put an adjustable channel up front with a pintle.

  Here is a photo of my current rig ready for deliveries. No logs in that nice trailer.








          Reid

There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

jpgreen

I like the crane idea also. Prolly much cheaper than a grapple.

My father in-law is in the truck hoist system business in Sacramento.  I've gotta see what he's got in the bone yard.

My wife's family has been in the truck hoist business for years.  Her grandfather invented the Hi-Lift bed.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

twoodward15

If you have 23 inch wide cherry that is clear you need to be getting at least $5 a bdft green for it.  Probably much much more.  I'd certainly think about getting it dried.  Lumber that wide should bring good money.  On another note.  here in jersey I can get green cherry for $1.65 a bdft.  Air dried is $3.  A good price the local woodworkers say (I'm a woodworker not a sawyer) but too rich for my blood.
108 ARW   NKAWTG...N      Jersey Thunder

Thank You Sponsors!