Yelling at government officials??

[estiers]

Maybe it is just me?  Lately I have come across several people in the wood industry who are very mad at the government.  That is fine, even acceptable, that they do not agree with everything that local, state, or federal officials have done.  That being said, personally, I would never just open up a can and take it out on the first governmant official that came across my path.  In the past week I have been blamed for just about everything from awarding of state contracts (I work for the feds), to privledged people being let go for drunk driving while the little man would be chucked in jail, to the trade deficeit, among several other things.  I do not originate in the wood industry, but have worked with it for the last 2 years now, and these chewings are getting more frequent.  Is there something going on that I do not know about?  Do I need to just get used to these types of tirades?  Do any of you feel compelled to yell at all government officials that you come in contact with, regardless of rank or status?  I have pretty thick skin, but geez......

[oakiemac]

Erin,

A little off the subject that you posted about, but do you work with Jessica Simmons? She is the one that has put on the game of logging classes and a few other good seminars in Michigan.
I, for one, appreciate the work that you all are doing!

Now about those high gasoline prices........ ;D

[crtreedude]

Just my dos colones on this.

First of all - rarely do I yell at government officials - only when it is personal. In otherwords, sitting there with your feet up while I am waiting for someone to take care of me is a great way to get yelled at.  ;)

That being said - the government keeps running on the concept "We can take care of you and protect you." It is of course very easy to point fingers at the current administration (take you pick, Democrat or Republican) and say "if they were doing their job - this wouldn't have happened."

The truth? There isn't enough money in the world to remove risk and disasters.

I just read this quote - and I think I will repeat it to the next person who tries to tell me that he will protect me.

"Security is mostly a superstition.  It does not exist
in nature, nor do the children of men as a
whole experience it.  Avoiding danger is no safer in the
long run than outright exposure.
Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing."
--- Hellen Keller ---

About the only thing that governments do really well is make promises. The problem is, when the people are led to believe the government will take care of them and doesn't... they start to hate the government.

I think the American people are stressed about a lot of things and expect the government to fix it - NOW. It would be nice if these people got a clue.

[Cedarman]

Schools teach kids to be part of the team. Do things as a team.  You are rewarded as part of the team, not individually.  Do not be an individual. Do not work on your own.  Etc.  Games should not have winners, it will lower the losers self esteem. You will always have success.  You have many rights, lots of rights. Etc Etc.  The company should take care of you, you are entitled to a job, housing, medical etc etc. 

Well who is supposed to guarantee all these rights and well being.  The government. Therefore it logically follows, who gets the blame when things don't go my way?

Estiers, better put on another layer of skin, because the future doesn't look all too good for government employees.

[Minnesota_boy]

If it is happening more frequently, it's likely that it is caused by stress, the stress that comes with trying to feed  the family while making payments and the price of the product you sell going down while the price of the raw materiel to you goes up along with the fuel prices.  I don't have an answer to it.

[crtreedude]

Perhaps this eruption is due to the fact that the US automakers aren't looking too good? When friends, relatives and perhaps yourself are facing layoffs - it could cause a bit of stress.

[thecfarm]

I work for a factory that supplies parts to all of the common cars makers.First off the CEO do not need to make over 10 million a year and all of their buddies could take a pay cut too.We are booming and working overtime. We are lucky, the plants being closed,we do not supply parts to.It's to bad people like us have to carry the US industry,while other people rake the money in.and what they don't rake they steal from the working class.

[BW_Williams]

Erin, I feel for ya!  My paying job is for the County, but really found out how much people like to yell at the goverment during my short stint working for FEMA :D.  Keep your chin up and Don't take it personally.  BWW

[Frank_Pender]

Try being on a school board for 29 years, or teaching in the classroom with 12 year olds for 30 years. 

It never even got close in my classroom, Cedarman.

I thing what some of the ranting comes down to is, someone to blame.   Many folks find it really challenging to look in the mirror and see the true reason for the personal issues they face.   Mnay lke to have a goat, someone elses goat and when their ox being gored the mindset turns as well. :'(

[Corley5]

In my former life as a gov't employee I had frustrations taken out on me ;)  Usually farmers with crop damage or deer hunters who hadn't seen any deer.  It didn't do any good to tell them that I didn't make decisions or was ever even consulted for that about wildlife populations.  Make your shoulders look big and don't let them get to you.  If they smell blood it'll be worse ;D  I met with one of your counterparts on the Michigan Dept of Ag side.  A nice fella by the name of Paul Filary who's the EAB inspector for my area.  Had a good visit with him and I didn't even yell  ;) ;D 8)

[Tom]

It's unfortunate that people don't stop long enough to listen to what they are saying.

Your experience happens everywhere.  I get blamed for forest fires and paper mill smells because I grow trees. 

I'll  have to admit that I get real frustrated with a lot of Government Employees, but have enough sense to understand that they aren't in control with the whole organization. (organization?)  I get mad when an individual is supposed to be doing a job by helping me and they won't.  I get mad when a dollar and a quarter clerk treats me like one beef in a herd of cattle.  I get angry with some bureaucrats who  think that I as a citizen work for them and must be put in  my place when my opinion is that they are a public servant.

Other individual's frustrations are nothing that you can control when they are complaining about another's bailiwick.  I guess that is why Customer Service positions are so difficult to keep filled.  "not only does this shoe not fit but the other one hurts and the parking lot is full and carts have broken wheels and you're out of my favorite cologne and you don't contribute to my favorite charity and .......  and........  I'm not gonna shop here any more."

I can see how you are confronted by so many weirdos.  Your job requires public access.  I guess, like a lot of us, it's best to smile and then kick the wall when you take a break.  Not all of us are so condemning, I'll assure you.  :D

[Jeff]

Erin, Just for the record, I think you are a lovely person and that you do a fine job. Wont you please come to our home for pig this summer?

[getoverit]

It has been my experience that dealing with Gooberment officials and clerks has been extremely difficult at times. Sometimes this is caused by ignorance of the laws on my part, other times it is because the clerk or official is having a bad day and they take it out on everyone they come in contact with.

Just going to the DMV to get your driver's license renewed is a real challenge in Fl. Sitting in line and hearing all of the stupid questions people ask is reason enough for the clerk to get miffed, but they have to remember that *I* am not the one that is causing them grief and not to take it out on me.

Getting a permit for something is a real challenge too, especially if you run across an inspector that has an anal view on life, or, who just came from a job where the builder tried to get away with something they knew wouldnt pass. They tend to take it out on everybody else they met that day.

Because this is so common to run across someone that is out to make life difficult, I generally go in to these types of situations with my guard up and ready for battle. It is only after I see that they are trying to help me that I let my guard down.  I can be a pleasant person, or I can be an angry one. It all depends on the way I am treated.

Also, you have to realize that sometimes you are the 3rd, 5th, or 10th person that they have been passed off to, and this gets old real fast and causes stress and anger. I dont know what you do for the gooberment, but if you are in one of these places, this could explain people's frustrations?

[Cedarman]

Frank, there are some teachers out there that buck the trend.  And most teachers want to do a super job of educating our kids. I blame school administrators for misguiding our teachers. Teachers for the most part are supposed to implement the policy set by administrators and school boards.
I taught for 4 years about 25 years ago, so I have some dated insight. Also I still have a kid in high school and see what happens locally.  I suppose that is where my cynicism comes from.

Since many gov employees are treated kind of poorly, I have found that by being as pleasant as possible, (takes a good bit of effort for me) being as prepared as possible and doing my best to show my appreciation for any effort sent my way, I usally get what I want.  Periodically I have to go before the worker's comp judge to contest a decision or defend one.  By being polite, waiting my turn to speak, being concise and coming prepared with all paper work in order, I have never lost an appeal.

Erin, keep coming to the forum, we won't rag you, too much :D :D :D

[rebocardo]

I usually do not yell at people, except the idiot that waited on me at Radio Shack.

> Do any of you feel compelled to yell at all government officials that you come in contact with, regardless of rank or status?

I usually save that for someone wearing a tie, do you wear a tie?
:-D

My mother in law works as an intake worker as S.S., she always gets yelled at.

[dewwood]

Erin,

I am sure these people you mention are not upset with you personally.  I think we are in a time of extreme stress due to many factors and the agency you represent is dealing with an extremely frustrating situation.  Most people are already upset and this ash boror thing is so disheartening to most because we feel like another one of our great resources is being taken away from us without recourse.  I know this does not help you cope but hang in there and realize most of the time what you are receiving is the result of many factors culminating with you because you are the one there right now that they can complain to.

Keep smiling,

Dewey

[beenthere]

Estiers           (Dewwood said it well, and is quicker )
I don't envy your job position, as it appears that you are on the front line for getting  people to adhere to the regulations and limitations surrounding the EAB problem with ash. Can't say I'd be too excited about any one putting me in a quarantined area and then saying that I have to discontinue moving wood around (not sure that is exactly what you do, but from your recent message about the new areas in Indiana, seems to fit).  

I have some land in a Govt program under CRP tree planting. I get the monthly newsletter and am not impressed by the way these 'agents' talk down to their 'customers'. Its like I was back in 2nd grade and getting the explanation of the various things going on that they think I should know about. I don't know that I would have a cure for doing it different, but these 'agents' seem hard pressed to come up with new 'articles' every month, and it shows.   The other thing about this Fed agency (USDA soil conservation service) is the requirement that all the rural folk participating in these programs cannot do anything over the internet. Everyone has to travel to their office and wait in line to get as little as one form and one signature handed to the 'clerks' who ...........  but I rant too long.  
Just gets frustrating that they can't get out of the last century.    But I don't blame any of them for the 'worlds' problems.

PS  I did send a 'message' to an Arkansas Postmaster who returned my Christmas letter undelivered. I've been using this same address of my Uncle and Aunt for at least 25 years and always it worked. However, this letter comes back yesterday with a note on the envelope that the name of the street was not known (I had Windson) and that it may be Windsor (which is correct).  For that 'error' they sent the Christmas letter back exactly one month later.  Now, unfortunately, my Uncle died last week so am correcting the address error and now sending a sympathy card to my Aunt in Arkansas.  But the Postmaster is getting a 'curt' message about their service, which they probably think they don't deserve.  I feel better already.  

[Corley5]

Odd that the SCS (NRCS) hasn't entered the Internet Age but the FSA encourages the use of it and they are all part of the bigger USDA :.

[crtreedude]

Beenthere,

If you used the right zipcode - there really isn't any excuse. If not, it does get a little harder.

[Tom]

Beenthere
Ah-h-h-h  the benefits of living in the modern streamlined world.  

When I was a little boy I could pick up the phone and say "I want to talk to Granddaddy" and the operator would say "just a minute, Tommy", and connect me to his office.

A few years ago, I had feelings of inadequacy for not contacting a great aunt.  I could find no address but new exactly where she lived.  It was right down the street from where I used to live.   I put the letter in an envelope and addressed the outside envelope to the Post Master of the town.  I explained why I was doing it and wrote, "the house is about a half block down S. 11th from Orange.  I was thinking that having the persons name and geographical location, along with a little history of the family, He could get the letter delivered.   In a couple of weeks, my "inside" letter was returned to me with ink all over it. "Non-Deliverable No zip code".

Times sure change.   :'(

[crtreedude]

It is a bit different here for sure. First, we don't have zipcode, heck, we barely have addresses. For example, we are in Villa Real just 50 meters North of the play ground - I kid you not, that is the address.

We moved from one section of town to another and neglected to tell the post office. Didn't matter - they found us anyway. Not a lot of 6'2" Gringos with white hair in town.  :

Normally our mailed is delivered to us in hand by a person on a motocycle.

[estiers]

Wow.  Your answers are varied and appreciated.  I have been down on my job since this began, so it is good to gain some understanding about why it is happening.

I do not wear a tie.  I don't even wear a uniform.  If I didn't tell you, or show you my credentials you wouldn't even know who I was.

It is just really disheartening, because yes, my job is to tell you what you CAN'T do, but it is also to help you to know what you can do.  Many people believe that you cannot take ash logs from the quarantined area.  This is NOT true.  If you have the right paperwork (I know.. more paperwork) and the right signatures you can market ash logs.  I HELP as well as hinder, unfortunately some people do not see me this way.

Jeff - Thanks for the invite to the roast.  As you know, I missed last year due to the government shipping me off to training.  I will try to make it this year, but forgive me if I don't make it.  I will be pretty pregnant (8.5 months) by that point.

[Corley5]

I will try to make it this year, but forgive me if I don't make it.  I will be pretty pregnant (8.5 months) by that point.

Congratulations 8) 8) 8)

[Tom]

Hey!!   We'll maybe get a two-fer-one.  :D :D

[crtreedude]

Erin, Just for the record, I think you are a lovely person and that you do a fine job. Wont you please come to our home for pig this summer?

Well, I am relieved. I thought Jeff was having another issue like the one a short time ago with Kevin. 

You know Jeff, you are never going to live that down... :D

[beenthere]

..........
I do not wear a tie.  I don't even wear a uniform.  If I didn't tell you, or show you my credentials you wouldn't even know who I was.

It is just really disheartening, because yes, my job is to tell you what you CAN'T do, but it is also to help you to know what you can do.  Many people believe that you cannot take ash logs from the quarantined area.  This is NOT true.  If you have the right paperwork (I know.. more paperwork) and the right signatures you can market ash logs.  I HELP as well as hinder, unfortunately some people do not see me this way.

For doing what you are, I think you should be wearing a uniform, or something to show that you are a professional (that isn't too obvious in many professional places these days) and that what you speak has some 'backing' to it. If a policeman comes to my door, I have some pre-knowledge that what he says to me could be important and I should listen and pay attention. If the same person shows up at my door in blue jeans and t-shirt, I would have a completely different mindset. You may be getting across the wrong first-impression that later causes the recipient to be embarrassed when he/she finally finds out what you are up too, and then unleashes all their problems of which they know you can do nothing about, but it might be their way of 'getting even' with you.   Granted, I really don't know what causes some people to come unglued, but in the area you are employed, you need to show a real authoritative first-impression.

[estiers]

For doing what you are, I think you should be wearing a uniform,

In some instances, like when we are doing regulatory blitzes (ie looking for firewood and taking it) then I do wear a uniform.  However, it can be a liability in the "backwoods", or a little off setting to some, like the Amish, that I have to deal with pretty closely

[janet]

Try the Costa Rican response.  Yep, it's different.  If you want to make sure NOTHING gets done here, raise your voice.  All work stops...you can wait forever.
Yelling and impatience turns any government office into a turtle nesting ground.
BUT it shouldn't happen to you...
Janet

[Don_Papenburg]

I used to operate a service station long ago ..   If you tally up the people that are AHs you will find that most are not .  I used to think that allof my costomers were AHs till I did some tallying . What it amounts to is that it just takes on jerk on a friday to make all of your contacts for the week  to seam like AHs.   

[crtreedude]

Janet,

I will have to beg to differ - turtles move much, much faster...  :

[mometal77]

I hate politicians i mean i live in a left wing state with an idiot for a governor./senator
off topic but funny
(This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.)

Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die. Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments. For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives. Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA....ZILCH....This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds; "OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK"! From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, -every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer)- we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of
$1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits! Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us ... then sit back and watch how fast they would fix it. If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve.
Got this last one from a friend in the army

[janet]

Got a point, Fred.  Might try skirts....
8)

[estiers]

 Unfortunately,  Mometal has made the point I was trying to make.  :-[

[crtreedude]

Unfortunately - or perhaps fortunately, mometal77, this is an Urban Legend - it isn't true.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp

[mometal77]

crtreedude
I think my buddy got it from an email that was sent to him i know of a few sites (http://www.laughatliberals.com/blog/archives/2005/the-great-debate-or-is-it-so-great/)with bad things that go on.  I mean i am dreading next year on the tab car tax our weight class of our vehicle.  Its just going to get worse before it gets better no wonder people are moving to montana.  Too many californians and higher property taxes i hear the midwest is now getting this problem.   A few years ago with the enron thing that happened seattle city light and puget power lost over 90 million to give california power.  The idiot politicians at the time (locke)(patty) of washington put this on the backs of power consumers of our state.   I have found after writing to these people with nothing back in the mail over time it gets no where.  Some politicians have no power even i found out in wash dc.  I also found some agencies dont take agencies in DC seriously look at the forestryservice.  Me and my father found out how dumb the games go after spending 25k trying to get a 2megawatt plant back into operation something that never happened.  Agencies i believe are worse than any politician.

[crtreedude]

The problem of course is that when you divide the job too much, pretty soon, each person can't do anything besides push the paper from one desk to the next.

No decision is ever made because the only thing that is important is keeping your job. This has nothing to do with government, just large organizations.

The larger the organizations - the less flexible, and government is about as large as you can get.

[estiers]

Unfortunately, Mometal has made the point I was trying to make. :-[

Wow! I was 0/2.  When I said this I was making the point that this is exactly the type of thing that happens to me when I visit people.  I show up to inform/educate them about EAB and the quarantine and they take out their frustrations about how Congress is spending their tax dollars.....

[Frickman]

I avoid government people as much as possible. That way I'm not tempted to yell at them.

[Texas Ranger]

I have personally found over the years that yelling at government officials, or offal, is a DanG lot safer than yelling at my wife. :'(

[mometal77]

estiers
I know, but wasnt jesus a friend to the tax man? Which gets me confused today. One thing a friends father once said to me and his son.  When talking with an old friend and you want to keep the friendship still.  You never talk about religion or politics.  I was thinking what kind of friend would they be if we didnt like the same things and couldnt complain like red green/archie bunker does.   Maybe to think ahead we should do what stalin did send idiot voters/amongs other people to a like/siberia place starting with the politicians.   :D I know we would be paying for some good housing.   You have me beat on that ranger too funny. :D  I still laugh at the bumper sticker I saw on a car over the summer never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.