iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

White oak question

Started by TN_man, January 20, 2006, 07:51:58 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TN_man

I have a white oak on my property that is about 24" dbh that seems like it may be sick. I do not know this for sure, so I need to ask ya'lls opinion. The bark near the butt has gone fairly smooth and somewhat whiteish (if that is a word). It has not lost its bark but it does not have that rough look to it and this only occurs in certain spots.
The butt log may be of veener quality as I can not see a defect in it for 10-12'. I was trying to decide if I should go ahead and harvest it or let it stay to reproduce itself.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jeff
WM LT-20 solar-kiln Case 885 4x4 w/ front end loader  80 acre farm  little time or money

Pullinchips

Is there any evidence of animal coons/squirrels or woodpecker using this tree.  The bark is fairly loose and can be flicked off by a pecker very easily.  But you said that it "is not loosing its bark", so i quess this is not it. 

Another thing that i just thought of is that it is a genetic mutant, or has a slight variation of the bark at maturity.  These things do occur, thats how species evolve, if it is beneficial to the species it may become a dominant trait over thousands of years.  Genetic variation is possible that is the reason for nurseries to breed only desired traits of trees.  Or another option may be some sort of hybridization occured  with a post oak Q. stellata (same family), which will have smoother smaller "whiteish bark" if its a word, on the lower trunk.  These do occur and probably more readily than some beleive.  Could be a tree that has white oak leaves and form but at maturity (or the trees whole life you did not say) has bark that is characteristic of Q. stellata

As far as is the tree sick there is not enough description of traits characteristics that let us know.  Plus i can't see the tree (which you know).  Is there any mushrooms growing from the base of the tree to signal root rot or a heart rot, any oozing canker, crown thinning (loss of crown density over the years) to signal decline, fewer leaves this year as opposed to last, signs of insect infestation, disease, etc.  All of these signs can signal a sick tree and some things may be treatable, but probably would only make economical sense for a yard tree that has asthetic value to it.

My opinion would be to not cut it yet.  Wait let it leaf out and see what it does over the spring summer months, look for branch dieback and epicormic branching on trunk and the upper limbs signifying that somthing is going on.  Or if it comes back at all.  If it is dead or near death and never really comes back the tree is still good as a saw log then just dont let it sit to long, this is assuming that it was alive last year. 

Bark asthetics are not a great idicator of tree health (all the time) because of variation.

Hope this answer helps. And was not to long and rambling.

-Nate
Resident Forester
US Army Corps of Engineers: Savannah District

Clemson Forestry Grad 2004
MFR Clemson University 2006
Stihl MS 390

SwampDonkey

I'll second Nates explaination.  ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Phorester


Sounds like your oak has what is called smooth patch, or white patch.  It's caused by a fungi that eats away the outer rough covering of the bark and thus makes it look smooth.  Pretty common.

This fungi causes no problem whatsoever for the oak.  It only attacks the outer bark. 

Stephen_Wiley

Key is being able to actually view the tree.

More simplistic explanation may be - smooth patch a fungal infection which effects the bark only. Is a secondary fungus which does not impact tree vigor or wood structure.
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

Stephen_Wiley

Hey. Phorester, 

Got a note that said to review my post as someone else was posting.  Looked down at post without reading whole post, thought it was my own.
:)
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

Phorester


No problem, Stephen.

Out of curiosity I just did a Google search on smooth patch.  Lots of info on it.

Dan_Shade

ok, i'll be the dummy:

what is epicormic branching?
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

jon12345

buds/branches sprout on side of bole after exposure to increased sunlight

can turn a clear log into             o           O                               O                             O                                       O                                                     O                O


O                                                          O                                       O
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

TN_man

Thank you for all the responses. I was afraid it was a fungus of some sort, but did not know if it would effect the life and quality of the wood.
You guys are great and thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have decided to keep the tree around and watch it this next spring and summer.
WM LT-20 solar-kiln Case 885 4x4 w/ front end loader  80 acre farm  little time or money

Pullinchips

Stephen,

To save me a litle time.  What trees does smooth patch infect, and what is the range of the disease ( i assume the same as the trees, but dont know if climate is a factor)  I'm young as y'all may notice from my sig. line, and also as a graduate of a southern school of forestry we pretty much learn about pines and how to grow pines. But thats what pays the bills around here. 

I thought about hardwood before i came back to get my masters but the ever so power full draw of southern pine drew me in.  But i do love hardwood, especially the white oaks and Q. alba especially.

-Nate
Resident Forester
US Army Corps of Engineers: Savannah District

Clemson Forestry Grad 2004
MFR Clemson University 2006
Stihl MS 390

Phorester


NATE,  It's most visible on oaks, particularily in the white oak family.  So it "appears" to only affect them.  But it's also on other hardwoods and conifers,  just harder to see on the bark of other trees.  I've seen it on white and slippery elm and ash in my area, but it certainly doesn't stand out on them like it does on white oak. 

And you're right, it occurs wherever the species grows.  It's considered to have been around as long as the trees have been around.

SwampDonkey

I've seen great big blue-yellow-green blotches on my maples, but that's an algae or lichen and doesn't hurt anything. Caused mostly by air pollutants.


"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Wenrich

I remember a logger telling me that white oak that had those smooth patches were more prone to being wormy, and not any good for veneer.  Also, white oak growing around hemlock were probably wormy.  Coincidence?
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Phorester

I was told somewhere a long time ago, I can't remember where, that smooth patch only occured on slow growing trees, which would of course be ones that have a problem either from suppression, insect, disease, offsite, or just plain old age.  So a wormy oak would go along with a slow growing tree.

But I don't really know if  the smooth patch actually affects only slow growing trees.  I haven't seen any reference to this in the scientific/professional writings.  I've bored many white oaks with smooth patch over the years and wouldn't say there is a correlation between fast or slow growth rates and smooth patch, or defective wood in the  increment core. But of course I wasn't looking specifically for a growth correlation when I bored them either.   It was just the tree I chose to bore, the smooth patch was incidental.

As far as white oak growing around hemlock, I wouldn't think that hemlock itself would have anything to do with it.  Maybe because hemlock tends to grow on miost sites, maybe these sites are a stress for the oak growing there?   Just typing as I'm thinking here....

Stephen_Wiley

Nate, I would affirm Phorester's resonse(s) to your question. Likewise have viewed it on ash, elm, hawthorn, apple. Usually is visible on more rough bark opposed to smooth bark trees.

Ron, I would not confirm your loggers response as I have diagnosed  many Q. garryana with carpenter worm, etc. without any smooth patch present.  Yet, I have also noticed it on trees infected with Armillaria spp. This fungus might be more contributed to microclimate conditions of bark only i.e., wet bark, or shade or lack of sun exposure.

Swamp.  ??? caused by air pollutants?  Most lichens are sensitive to air pollutants and will die off when exposed. They usually are an indicator of rich filled oxygen air.
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

SwampDonkey

Lichens have no roots, they live off what they get from the air. Granted too much pollution will have adverse affects such as SO2. But your right, generally the effect of pollution is negative. Thanks for the correction.  :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Pullinchips

Come to think of it i have seen a few Q. Stellata thats bark appeared smoother than it should have been and appeared to be more crumbly, in my woods.  Probably the same thing, i'll have to keep a look out for it next time i'm in the woods.

-Nate
Resident Forester
US Army Corps of Engineers: Savannah District

Clemson Forestry Grad 2004
MFR Clemson University 2006
Stihl MS 390

Thank You Sponsors!