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Martin Luther King and other great Americans

Started by Ironwood, January 16, 2006, 05:12:06 PM

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Ironwood

  Well, since no one else posted about it I just wanted say Happy Martin Luther King Day. He was one of our great Americans. I wonder where the next great American will show up? I am proud to live in this country and especially proud of the leaders among us who dare to dream.

                            Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

thurlow

Hey Reid, I spent about a week in Memphis in April of '68 when he was assassinated (MP unit of the TN Army National Guard) doing riot control and curfew enforcement.  Was a lot younger then and probably didn't realize the historic events unfolding around us.  More or less a lark...........bunch of (mostly) twenty-something year olds riding around with loaded weapons in a city which was essentially a powder keg.  His life is still controversial in many circles.  From the frorum rules, I understand that posting links is generally frowned upon, but an exception could maybe be made for this.  http://patriotpost.us/histdocs/HaveDream.htm.  It's his "I have a dream" speech, which IMO ranks with Lincoln's Gettysburg address, Washington's farewell to the troops and a few others.
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

logwalker

I don't know what to say. There are so many injustices in this world. It makes me very sad to consider some of the ones in our nation's history. But I do know that the good in people will come out when given a chance. This country's ability to examine it's own shortcomings is what makes it truly great among the nations of the world. Mr. King was an insiration to all who seek truth and justice. Thanks for reminding us Reid. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Paschale

I heard probably his last speech today on the radio, which was given the day before he died.  I got goosebumps as I heard him talk, especially when he mentioned, "I fear nothing now."  He said, "though I may never reach the promised land with you, I have been to the mountaintop, and know it's there."  It was deeply moving, and made me think of the tragic injustices done to our fellow countryman.  All I can say is that I'm proud that MLK was an American.   
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

rebocardo

> He was one of our great Americans

I disagee and will say above average.

Just not great enough to justify his own Federal holiday in my opinion. To put him on equal terms with Washington and Lincoln, two ELECTED men that carried the burden of our early country and conflicts, lessens the remembrance of their service, sacrifice, fidelity, and character. imho.

I guess I have real issues with anyone that calls themselves a Rev., Pastor, or a man of God and commits adultery. You are not thinking of God when you are laying with a woman that is not your wife, nor when you are laying with your wife holding her, saying I love her, when you know you are having sex and betraying her with another woman. Maybe if the lurid and raunchy FBI tapes were made available we could judge for ourselves. Can lying and betrayal get any worse?

Modern day pharisees, like the Rev. MLK and J.Jackson, do what they say, not what they do.

I would be more amendable to maybe remembering Rosa Parks with a national highway instead.



Chris J

Thanks for the post, Reid.  I concur with the positive comments.

Rebocardo, the private and personal lives of many great persons would not look good under the level at which Dr. King was and still is scrutinized.  Keep in mind our modern technology puts public figures under a much more powerful microscope.
Certified Amateur Chainsaw Tinkerer.  If sucess is built on failure, then one day I'll live on the top of Mt. Everest.

Paschale

Quote from: rebocardo on January 17, 2006, 12:44:16 PM
I guess I have real issues with anyone that calls themselves a Rev., Pastor, or a man of God and commits adultery. You are not thinking of God when you are laying with a woman that is not your wife, nor when you are laying with your wife holding her, saying I love her, when you know you are having sex and betraying her with another woman. Maybe if the lurid and raunchy FBI tapes were made available we could judge for ourselves. Can lying and betrayal get any worse?

Modern day pharisees, like the Rev. MLK and J.Jackson, do what they say, not what they do.

MLK arguably was the most important figure in the 20th century to bring about justice to black Americans.  Yes, he had his affairs, and there is no excuse for this.  But that does not change his accomplishments.  Perhaps it changes the way we personally view him, and certainly those unfortunate aspects of his character are those which we should not emulate.  I still contend he was a great, albeit flawed, man.  (Who among us isn't flawed?)  But thank God that God is a forgiving God, even to adulterers.  He's a better man than me--I'm not a martyr for a cause greater than myself, and he's much further up on the leger than I ever hope to be, even with his pecadillos.  Besides, King David in the old testament was an adulterer--and he arranged the killing of Bathsheba's husband.  What did God say about him?  That he was a man after his own heart.  I'm glad God views the merit of a man in ways that we can't possibly understand, and I think the words he said about David would hold true to MLK.   

He's a great man, and I honestly appreciate the reminder each year of the serious injustices done to our black brothers and sisters not so long ago.
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

getoverit

MLK did say one thing that rings true: "A man should be judged by the content of his charachter rather than the color of his skin."  This is one thing that I try to live by daily, and encourage others to do as well.

Today, in America, I believe this is the rule of the land. The problem is that those with bad charachter still demand better treatment and priviledges over and beyond those granted to the majority of Americans, and in alot of cases they are guaranteed those rights and priviledges based soley on the color of their skin and not the content of their charachter. The problem is that "quota" employment, scholarships, government grants, employment promotions and housing assistance is as unfair and discriminitory as all of the things MLK fought for, yet they are still done to keep down the costs of litigations and bad press and bad mouthing from those such as the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. I dont know what God those two serve, but I can guarantee you that it isnt the same one I serve. They spew more vile hatred than anything else, and I serve a Loving and forgiving God.

The thing that scares me is that "I have a dream" of the Muslim minority in the world demanding a world wide holiday in 30 to 40 years in honor of Usama Bin Laden, who they say is a world wide "freedom fighter amd martyr."

All I can say is he needs to be judged by the content of his charachter

I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Patty

Someone said once that a person's character is what comes out when he thinks no one is looking.


That speaks volumes.
Women are Angels.
And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........
on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

Ironwood

  Thanks all for your input, I am greatful for your reflecting on the matter, and for those reading but not posting.

  On a personal level, I have never been very judgemental and I have become even less as I have aged a bit (lived a little). We can never know the truely know the intimate experiences of others lives even our closest loved ones let alone public figures. Think about that for a moment!!!!

  He was a great force for justice and made many Americans change their behaviors for the better. 

  As for a Rosa Parks Highway, I think that would be  a slap in the face. I was joyed to see her "laid in state" in D.C. She certainly deservess that and more, more than a highway.


                Thanks again all, Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Murf

For any that doubt what role MLK or even the lesser roles played by the Rosa Parks of American history, I can vouch for what they contributed to the great land we know today.

For me it is a very personal matter, very close to home, for two reasons. Firstly, our family was involved in the underground railway, we were the northern terminus of it.

Secondly, and more importantly to myself, I am see the results of what happens without people like MLK, I see it everyday in my loving wife's face. You see, she was born in South Africa, while the country was still under the apartheid system. The laws they had in place were established  and maintained for one reason, and one reason only. To establish, and maintain the fact that if you were not 100% white, under the law you were not a person, nor a citizen.

They maintained this twisted version of reality by a skewed set of laws, and an equally skewed sense of right & wrong. They held "free elections" every few years, except only certain people could vote, people with a SA passport. In order to have a passport, you had to have a birth certificate, in order to have your birth recorded, and a certificate issued, you had to be white, 100% white.

This also spilled over into everyday life as well, "non-citizens" had almost no standing in society, they could not have a deed to land, nor an ownership certificate for a car, nor a driver's licence. In court a "non-citizens" word could not, by law, be taken over a "citizen's" (read: white person's) word. This means any white person could effectively have any 'non-white' person thrown in jail by merely accusing them of some crime, they could not win in court and wen't to jail.

Nice system huh?  ::)

To say anything less than that MLK gave his life so that his brothers & sisters could live as full members of a free society would be, IMHO, an understatement and an insult to a lot of people, myself included.

IMHO, God made us all equal, what right does any man have to say otherwise?  ::)

Rant over, now back to our regularly scheduled food talk.  ;D
If you're going to break a law..... make sure it's Murphy's Law.

Paschale

Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

getoverit

You are a man of great charachter, Murf, and from the sound of it so is your wife. I applaud you and your family. As I said in my earlier posts, I judge ALL men by the content of their charachter, not the color of their skin.  If you knew me better, you would understand that I not only talk the talk, I live it also and walk the walk.

The thing that bothers me about MLK is that he was "brought to power" during a time of the Black Panthers, Malcom X, and several other groups. While he tried to keep his distance, somehow he was routinely involved with them and the riots, killings and vandalisim they caused during the early 60's.
Even though he tried his best to move America in a non-violent manner in order to gain equality, it just happened that alot of those he associated with and those that followed him didnt see eye to eye with his non-violent protests. Because of this, I cant agree that he was any greater man than anybody else. Jesse Jackson was MLK's right hand man. If there is a definition of a "racist", it most certainly has to be Jesse Jackson.
It is funny how time has a way of changing history though. Even though I lived through the period he was doing all of his marches, riots and rallys, and watched the news coverage on a daily basis, somehow history has changed MLK into a god like figure in our society. I fear that those that are toddlers now, or those that havent even been born yet will see Usama Bin Laden in the same light that alot of people now see MLK in. This scares me.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

crtreedude

Rarely are people who are at the fulcrum, Saints - no excuses, just saying they were special people. Imagine knowing that for trying to make things better for you brothers and sister you were probably going to die - and doing it anyway.  :o

Was MLK a great man? He was to me. He kept going in the face of death. Do I agree with his followers? Not all the time, I think many of them who assumed his legacy are not near the man he was - and some of them a charlatans. No big surprise there.

If we are going to condemn MLK for his hangers on - well, it doesn't bode well for Jesus Christ. After all, there have been a lot of people killed in crusades in His name. There are a lot of very evil so called followers of Christ in my not so humble opinion.

You can't judge MLK based on what came after in my opinion. Each person has to try to do what they can.

Often the problem with people at the fulcrum is that it can be very painful - and sometimes fatal. Those who stayed in there and didn't run deserve to be honored.
So, how did I end up here anyway?

Kirk_Allen

On a local level what I saw this week only diminishes the good MLK brought to this country.  A group of local Black Activists are tyring to sue local business's for being open on MLK birthday claiming its some sort of violation for business's to be open.

I dont know what its like in other states but in Illinois we no longer have Lincolns birthday off.  We no longer have Washingtons Birtday off.  Instead, they have combined the two days and now have Presidents DAY and then included a new one, called Pulaski day and we still have MLK day off.  Anyone know who Pulaski is?  

In my area it was only the post office and banks that closed.  Everyone else was open.  I dont think any of the business close on the other days either.  

Paul_H

We use Pulaski tools to fight fire.It has an axe on one side and a mattock style on the opposite side.

Is it related?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paschale

We have a big Polish community here in Grand Rapids, as well as a "Pulaski Square," (nothing more than a corner), as well as some Pulaski halls.  If memory serves, he served in the Revolutionary War, and Poles take great pride in his role.  There must be a very large Polish community where you live.
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

Paschale

I just did a Google search, and came up with this:

"I came here, where freedom is being defended,
to serve it, and to live and die for it."

General Casimir Pulaski in a letter
to General George Washington

Sounds like he too was a great man--he died in Savannah, Georgia, defending American against the Brits, and he is widely regarded as "The Father of the American Cavalry."  Apparently he's one of the leading war figures of the Revolutionary War, and gave his life defending his country.  I don't think it so bad that a community somewhere in America still remembers this man, who was a foreigner who gave his life in defense of our country.  I personally wish I knew more about the Revolutionary War, and the heroes from so long ago.  It's nice to know that some people keep his memory alive.

As to the lawsuits for staying open on MLK, that's just hogwash.

Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

Kirk_Allen

Paschale, you hit the nail on the head with Pulaski. A great man that is Honored in the State of Illinois but for what ever reason, has no honoring anywhere else in the country.  He did in fact play a key role in training our Calvery and died defending our freedom and rights. 

Ironwood

Thanks again, This is the honest open discussion I'd hope for to get better sense of "our community". I like it here!

                   Reid :P ;)
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

DanG

Sadly, I knew nothing of Gen. Pulaski until now. :-[  He apparently was not unlike many of my friends who died defending the rights of the Vietnamese, or those that have given all for the freedom of the Iraqi and Afghani citizens.  There are not nearly enough days on the calendar to celebrate all the heroes I've seen in my life.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Deadwood

To tell you the truth Reid, and not to take away anything from MLK by any means, but I thought George Washington Carver was a great man as well. Considering the political climate of the day, he did some wonderous things...and I say that for humanity not just for his race. He was an incredibly intelligent man that helped promote American Agriculture....

"were his recipes and improvements to/for: adhesives, axle grease, bleach, buttermilk, chili sauce, fuel briquettes, ink, instant coffee, linoleum, mayonnaise, meat tenderizer, metal polish, paper, plastic, pavement, shaving cream, shoe polish, synthetic rubber, talcum powder and wood stain."

I saw a documentary on his life a year or so ago and was just amazed by what he was able to accomplish. When you look at the above list, you can see how many of his inventions/ improvements help us to this day, and when I say us, I mean that as a group of people who produce, harvest, nurish and promote wood products.

The following link is a short, but powerful read. If you take the time to read it, I think you will see that this man had true character as well.

George Washington Carver

rebocardo

The men that signed the Dec. Of Ind. did so knowing that the British, at the very least, were going to destroy everything they owned, and they were going to be penniless. Many died that way. Who can name them from memory?

Even today we have had great Americans, like Pat Tillman, that will soon be forgotten in 20 years.

Being worthy of honor, being remembered, or even great does not equate being worthy of a Federal holiday until the end of time. imo

imo, If you give people a MLK holiday then they do not have to think about what the government (FBI) did to discredit him. Or to put black businesses in the ground (Great Star liner).  We saw the same type of tactics used recently on an innocent Richard Jewell. 

In my view, the holiday was nothing more then a deflection from real issues

> a person's character is what comes out when he thinks no one is looking.

and he is not worthy of it because in no way was he equal to Washington or Lincoln. As a matter of fact, I can't think of any American besides those two I would honor with a national holiday, though some rise close.

If we needed another national holiday, separate from Mem. Or Vet. day, it should have been Dec 7th to remember and contemplate the 405,000 Americans that lost their lives in just WWII. Not to sell more cars. It was the black service men that fought for a country that would not recognise them (just like in the civil war) that upon thier backs MLK rose.

Because once they got back from war, there was no way you could put them or the woman back in the same place from which they rose. Pretty tough to tell a black man who's all black fighter squadron that never lost a bomber to go back to picking cotton or using a separate bathroom. Or a woman that has riveted or welded together a Liberty ship that her place is only in the kitchen and she is not worthy of equal pay.

MLK did not change the course of black people in this country single handed, it was started 20 years before in WWII by countless thousands of other blacks, without recognition, who probably lived better moral lives. I hold more accountable a police officer that sells drugs then an 18 year old pot head. I hold more accountable someone that calls himself Rev., that commits adultery, then I do Jim Bob or even a President.

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