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How do you lift logs?

Started by TW, December 26, 2005, 03:51:10 PM

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barbender

Here's the pics of my hoist and house project.







The log I'm lifting there is 20' long and 13" on the butt end.
Too many irons in the fire

TW

Jim
I have no principles or prejudices against gin poles. A gin pole seems to be a good idea for lifting roof ridge logs and large beams and for timberframing. The problem is that when building a loghouse one has to lift one log onto one wall, then onto another wall, and so on. There are 7 walls on that house which means that we will either must have many gin poles or carry them around a lot. There are still about 10 logs missing on the sides and 20 on the ends of the building That means that the setup time becomes too long.
It is impossible to dig down any deadman logs in the frozen gound, for anchoting stayropes.

barbender
That seems to be a quite good idea. I wounder if it is possible to scale it up to 5 meters (=16') lifting height. Then I would maybe have to add some concrete as a counterweight at the drawbar end, and pull it with a tractor. The tops of the gables can still then not be reached but maybe they can be assembled using a gin pole. I will print one of your pictures and show it to my metalworking neighbour in order to hear his opinion.

Yesterday I was visiting a relative who is a metalworking and farm mashinery expert. He suggested a short extension boom  on the front end loader. Then the log would hang in a chain below it. Then there is no force twisting the loader as with the forks we tried and found useless. Somebody already had suggested that solution on this forum, but I must check if it lifts high enough. I doubt it will lift high enough.

The log hose project is currently standing still because of too much ice on the logs. That means trhat I have time to look for the best solution for the lifting problem.

barbender

TW- You have ice on your logs over there too? ??? It's been warmer than normal this winter in northern Minnesota- hovering around freezing- and we keep getting freezing rain, so my logs have about 1/4" of ice on top of them.  I have a big propane torch I use to melt them off, just have to be careful not to give them that charred look ;D.  I think you could scale that hoist up to lift 5 meters, it would require some bracing, a wider stance, and counter weight like you mentioned.  Mine lifts about 10 feet.  How big are your logs?
Too many irons in the fire

TW

The logs are hewn to 5 " thickness and usually less than 10 meters (=33') long even if the longest one is about 13 meters. Their height is usually less than 12" in the thicker end.

The propane torch seems to be a good idea. I will test it.

We have also had a warm autumn with lots of rain and slush that has frozen on the logs.

Can anybody tell me how to post a sketch on the forum? I got another interresting suggestion today.

beenthere

Save your sketch as a *.jpg file and load it into your image gallery. From there you can paste it in your message.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Max sawdust

TW,
Moi,
Would'nt the gin pole work if it is mounted on the deck of the structure, and just have a long enough boom to place logs on all the walls?

Kitos
Max

(My Finnish is pretty bad, or should I say foul :D)  Worked for a Finnish company for 18 years, been there dozens of times almost moved there once.  Love it best country ever.
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

Don P

I don't think it will do for your lifting TW, but we had a genie lift on the job Friday. I figured I'd put a picture of one here as another way to pick stuff up.



TW

A friend told me a good idea, which I hope you will evaluate for me.
I drew it on paper and got him to take a digital picture of it(jpeg) but how do I get anything into my gallery? The picture is 64 kb and saved on my hard disc.
I am even less experienced with computers than logbuilding.

Jim_Rogers

What you'd need is a central gin pole, nearly straight up, plumb, and then a moving "jib" off that.



This type of gin pole is erected nearly straight or plumb, and the jib swings around to lift things from different sides, such as position A and then rotated around the gin pole to position B.
This way it could lift logs or timbers and build the structure.

I've seen this done in books, you'll need a ring to go around your gin pole, for the jib to rotate.
You may need to get a sailer or rigger involved in creating this.

TW: Also, email the picture to me and I'll post it for you.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

Here is TW's sketch of an idea.
I'm posting it for him:



Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

TW: If you add a block to the log end of the line you'll increase the amount you can lift or decrease the amount of pressure you'll have to use to turn the spool at the top.

Here is an example of block and tackle ratios:



Use mechanical advantages as much as you can to make work easier.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

TW

Explanations to the sketch:

The idea is to use theese things in pairs like mechanised skid poles.
The leg is telescopic and made from iron pipes.
The winch at the top is a boat winch.
The piece that crosses the top of the wall is a square pipe that is open to the end like a socket.
The winch stand is made from square pipes of which one fits int the socket.

Use:
1 The leg is erected with one end on the ground and the other on top of the wall.
2 The winch stand unit is put with the vertical short pipe into the socket. The force fom the winch will keep it in the socket
3 The log is connected to the winch and hauled up and placed on 3" thick wooden blocks and secured.
4 The winch unit is pulled out of the socket and put aside inside.
5 The leg is pulled uotwards and comes free.
6 Caulking id put between the logs and the blocks are removed

Would this work?

The idea comes from a friend but I developed it further.

I hope for critical comments.

Thehardway

According to Archimedes  :P all you need is a fulcrum and a lever.  Perhaps this is over simplifying a little but he was correct that leverage is one of the best ways to move anything heavy.  I have moved some very heavy timbers alone by myself using a balance point and a lever with counter-weight.  A chain fall hoist is another method I like to use.  A 1 ton chain fall with 20' of lift can be bought for less than $100.  Rig it under a tripod or a stayed gin pole and you have got a vary portable and versatile lifting machine which with help of 1 assistant can handle just about any timber.  There is another plus to using chains as oppsed to rope or cable in that there is no stretch and in the case of a break the recoil is limited.  Is you have ever seen a rope or cable fail under heavy load you quickly realize this is a valuable asset.

If you have access to a junkyard or a company involved in demolition they can get you some steel bar joist trusses which are extremely strong and can be assembled to form a gin pole style lifting derrick.
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Max sawdust

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on January 09, 2006, 09:22:56 AM
What you'd need is a central gin pole, nearly straight up, plumb, and then a moving "jib" off that.



This type of gin pole is erected nearly straight or plumb, and the jib swings around to lift things from different sides, such as position A and then rotated around the gin pole to position B.
This way it could lift logs or timbers and build the structure.

I've seen this done in books, you'll need a ring to go around your gin pole, for the jib to rotate.
You may need to get a sailer or rigger involved in creating this.

TW: Also, email the picture to me and I'll post it for you.

Jim Rogers
Yes, yes................
A friend has one erected at a site, when we set the second floor log joists, I will take pics of it in the works.  TW if you have trees around the building site then you simply climb the trees to the height of the gin pole and run a cable though to a boat winch to erect the gin pole.  See my post on this a while back.

Metal parts can be made by a welder for a few hundered dollars, if interested I will take pics of the parts so you can get them made.

Nice thing is you can fit an entire crane in a small box, when you get on site, simply use logs for the pole and boom.

Max
True Timbers
Cedar Products-Log & Timber Frame Building-Milling-Positive Impact Forestscaping-Cut to Order Lumber

logmason

Times when I had a floor deck to work off of, steel safe way scafold, on wheels, with a beam and hoist lashed over the top, and counter balance. Lift log off the floor, wheel hoist as close to wall as possable, crank it up. I will not go into specs as I am not an engineer, but have hoisted 24' x 8" oak as high as one story with this. With careful experience I learned what I could and could not do with this. Very time consuming.
I still refer to my other post of using a machine or log truck as being money better spent because of safety and gets it done way quicker, saving on labor.

stl_6string

I just found this link on the web....

http://www.oilyhands.co.uk/home_made_derrick_crane.htm

Very simple and capable of lifting heavy loads.

TW

Thank you all for your advice and ideas.

I have not yet decided excaktly what I am going to do but I will print this thread as a source of ideas.
Currently I am busy with othet things but I have made some sketches and calculations.

It is helpful to have a suorce of ideas because one often does not see the obvious solutions when thinking alone at home.

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